[NewCandle] [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: EMDrive

Tue Sep 12 10:27:39 EDT 2006

Hi Colin,

Here's a clever little app that may give you some insight
into the difference between phase and group velocity.

http://galileo.phys.virginia.edu/classes/109N/more_stuff/Applets/sines/GroupVelocity.html

Things get more complicated in a waveguide, due to the
fact that the waves are not all moving in the same direction.

The patent is pretty thin on details, it's not a teaching
patent. But do check it out.

K.

-----Original Message-----
From: newcandle-bounces at ipdiscover.com
[mailto:newcandle-bounces at ipdiscover.com]On Behalf Of Colin Quinney
Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2006 4:07 PM
To: New energy for the new world.
Subject: Re: [NewCandle] [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: EMDrive

Hi Keith,

I'm glad to be here. Nick suggested I join some time ago, but I'm still at 
first year level with much this stuff- physics- antigrav-  my "hobby".  I 
rarely post to the forums.  I am not familiar for instance with the 
difference between group velocity and phase velocity. There are however some 
similarities in this case to a conjecture I had once about C of M/E of 
dopplered light. And, yes, thank you very much for finding the patent. I 
will get into reading that as soon as I post this. I see it. I assume that 
Arrow #6 is the net force vector?.

Preamble:
If a photon frequency drops-  the EM energy drops. Does conservation then 
come about from the photon's momentum increasing? And if the photon's 
frequency drops so low... if it dopplers down to a quasi-static wavelength, 
the penetration into matter would be deep.

If the momentum therefore increases, and we are in a "designed" universe,, 
to what end does the momentum increase? To expand space? To create a "push" 
gravity? Maybe expanding space is the "result" of "push" gravity? Or maybe 
infinite space is not expanding at all.(Arp, et al). I just don't know, but 
"push gravity", if there is such a thing, might have more than one 
mechanism...

The reason I bring this up at all is because it is possible that this 
emdrive unit's Momentum-energy ratio (is there a proper word for that?) must 
stay in balance whether the wave 'velocity' changes or whether the wave 
'length' changes. Each implies an EM energy imbalance, at least in the 
proposed superconducting version. Perhaps the momentum exchange is between 
one end of the unit and the edge of the sidereal universe-  and so the C of 
M/E will not be broken after all.

Anyway, if my wild idea has a grain of truth, it implies "action at a 
distance" on the momentum component.
Sorry about the speculation. The truth is- the thing is probably full of 
artefacts, but WOW... if it isn't :-))

Cheers :)
Colin

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Keith Nagel" <NewCandleAdmin at ipdiscover.com>
To: "New energy for the new world." <newcandle at ipdiscover.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2006 2:16 AM
Subject: [Bulk] Re: [NewCandle] [Bulk] Re: EMDrive

> Well I suppose we can content ourselves at the moment with the patent,
> GB2399601 Here at Espacenet
> http://v3.espacenet.com/textdoc?DB=EPODOC&IDX=GB2399601&F=0
>
> It's pretty thin on details, but basically in fig 1 you have a tapered
> microwave cavity. If I understand the website and associated
> material he is saying that the group wave velocity at the large
> end is slow, and small at the fast end. The rate of change
> of group wavespeed down the cavity he's associating with the
> directional force? ( arrow 6 in fig 1 ).
>
> K.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: newcandle-bounces at ipdiscover.com
> [mailto:newcandle-bounces at ipdiscover.com]On Behalf Of Colin Quinney
> Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2006 12:58 AM
> To: New energy for the new world.
> Subject: Re: [NewCandle] [Bulk] Re: EMDrive
>
>
> Hi Keith,
>
> I missed your NewCandle Email. I haven't yet figured out how to direct and
> they have been going to my bulk basket, so I'm a couple of days behind.
>
> Short answer- no, but I should have requested the papers and now I'm 
> kicking
> myself. I didn't expect to see the emdrive as main theme on New Scientist,
> nor specifically this week -one day after I brought up the subject. That 
> was
> quite a coincidence. (although Nick might disagree with that assessment :)
>
> I have however posted to Vo the address to request the experimental and
> theory papers. TheEmdrive at aol.com
>
> Colin
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Keith Nagel" <NewCandleAdmin at ipdiscover.com>
> To: "New energy for the new world." <newcandle at ipdiscover.com>
> Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2006 6:58 PM
> Subject: [Bulk] Re: [NewCandle] EMDrive
>
>
>> Well, come to think of it, we can't rule out thermal
>> effects. With ~1KW in a closed waveguide, hot air could
>> be venting from a gasket or seam which would look
>> like a directional thrust. I don't entirely buy his
>> explaination of a multisecond time constant, again it's
>> looking more like thermal effect. OTOH I haven't seen
>> the actual details, just the site info, so perhaps he's
>> addressed these thing adequately. Did you sign up for
>> his paper, Colin?
>>
>> K.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: newcandle-bounces at ipdiscover.com
>> [mailto:newcandle-bounces at ipdiscover.com]On Behalf Of Keith Nagel
>> Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2006 4:47 PM
>> To: New energy for the new world.
>> Subject: [NewCandle] EMDrive
>>
>>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> Colin Q. posted notice of an electromagnetic propulsionless drive,
>> more info about which can be found here.
>>
>> http://www.shelleys.demon.co.uk/fdec02em.htm
>> http://www.emdrive.com/
>>
>> Here's a link to Shawyers patent, GB2399601
>> http://v3.espacenet.com/textdoc?DB=EPODOC&IDX=GB2399601&F=0
>>
>> Remarkably, it's only been patented in the UK. Given the
>> value of the device if it proves functional, I'm left
>> a bit slack jawed about that... You would think he would
>> have ignored GB and gone straight to WIPO.
>>
>> Anyway, it's promising that the device exhibits positve and
>> negative thrust depending on direction, so we can
>> rule out thermal effects. And simple radiation pressure ought
>> to be orders of magnitude lower than what he measures.
>> How about that?
>>
>> K.
>>
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>
>
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