[NewCandle] Physical Methods Of Water

[Keith Nagel]

Hey Jones,

Having given some thought to your earlier descriptions of the virtual
cathode/H2O2 system, one thought keeps sticking in my head. I'll write it, and
if your NDA is going to preclude further discussion, I'll just drop the
thought and we can go on with this other thing (H2).

The thought is, how do you seperate the effects of RF heating of the
catalyst/water from the charge effects? I mean, in your experiments,
how do you do this?

As regards the Puharich device, I've seen the actual experimental equiptment
he used to do the tests, it was literally an automotive spark plug ( look
at the patent and you'll see exactly what I mean ) and a Tek FG504 function
generator. Anyone can reproduce his work with those two thing and find out for themselves
whether it works as claimed. I've written about this before, perhaps on
the Vo list, perhaps here, I'm not sure.

But on to your interesting comments below. It is true that H2 is pretty stable and
doesn't tend to recombine in solution without a catalyst. This is why water
gas generators work as well as they do. My concern was that the substrate
itself will promote the recombination, before the bubble has a chance
to detach from the surface. The AC ( I use that term synonymously with RF )
exacerbates that problem. OTOH, if the suspended catalyst were composed of PN junctions,
you might just rectify enough AC to get some gas. I agree with you that it's
probably a doable thing, the question is what you gain by it. I also appreciate
that an entirely different sort of thing is happening with your H2O2 system
so don't take my comments about the H2 to apply there.

K.



-----Original Message-----
From: newcandle-bounces at ipdiscover.com [mailto:newcandle-bounces at ipdiscover.com]On Behalf Of Jones Beene
Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 1:10 PM
To: New energy for the new world.
Subject: Re: [NewCandle] Physical Methods Of Water


----- Original Message ----

From: Keith Nagel


Cool patent. Is this perhaps related to Jones proprietary method
of H2O2 concentration...


Hmm.. no comment on that - don't need an infringement lawsuit <g>.

However, as to your earlier comment that a "virtual electrode" i.e. an RF or AC irradiated nanocatalyst [which admittedly would be
similar to AC on planar electrodes in operation] would be unlikely to inhibit recombination of nascent hydrogen with hydroxyl ---
not so sure about that, at least not in an optimized case.

... lets not forget that time-delay and effective separation can inhibit recombination, and that H2 once formed is less
explosive/reactive than are most hydrocarbons like gasoline. It's a pretty strong bond in H2. For instance, you can NOT get H2 alone
to auto-ignite in a diesel engine at high compression unless you have a fully heated glow plug. I have seen this personally. But add
even a little diesel, less than what will ignite alone, and the combination works great - synergistically better than either alone.

The point is that if you give H2 a chance (few picoseconds??) to form - it will not easily ignite or recombine in any cell.  What
about an AC-equivalent cell designed designed to inhibit ?  I don't know. This is all based on a gut feeling that it can possibly
work and probably has been done before.

With a nanocolloid you would possibly get both the necessary time delay and separation of reactants to a greater degree then you
would with a planar electrode, even if that electrode had surface pitting such that the exposed area was the same. But here is the
main reason for a positive feeling about the prospects of this technique.

We all have opinions about the ill-fated Puharich patents, starting in 1983 [4,394,230 etc] which was basically for AC electrolysis,
and so-called "common manifold" gas, which is mixed H2 and O2 and which is potentially explosive, but can be used quickly before it
recombines as is done with Brown's gas. I think (know) that A.P. was dead-wrong to suggest that the frequency he used was a
"resonant frequency" for splitting water. It ain't so.  That part is BS but still - his cell did work to some surprising degree,
depending on how far back you go as he went bonkers later on.

Puharich, despite ultimate commercial failure due to mental illness (and drug addiction it is rumored), was able to earlier
demonstrate a strong anomaly in the amount of H2 which can be split, and Mark Goldes for one will vouch for seeing that - even if
Puharich was never able to get a commercial unit running and went broke trying. A surprising number of doctors become drug addicts.

I find it interesting that Puharich who was an MD discovered this effect from the AC electrolysis of blood -

Does that fit or not ? ... the iron hemoglobin of blood is, in effect, this very same kind of trasition metal nanocatalyst. The AC
probably was able to activate the band gap in it. I have some of the original papers, and it is pretty clear that it is a very
complicated story that should not be written off as Puharich being some kind of crank scammer. There was something of value there.
Maybe his best H2 units actually used animal hemoglobin, or a substitute. He was known to do some strange things - and I'm not
suggesting that stopping at meat packing houses on his infamous dross-country trip was one of them - but it would not surprise me at
all !

Jones