[NewCandle] Rolled Al hydrolysis

[Jones Beene]

As you guys know, these are essentially crude versions of the Grove 
Cell, not needing a membrane.
http://www.corrosion-doctors.org/Biographies/GroveBio.htm

Grove invented his cell as a battery but found it produced hydrogen as 
well -- it was essentially a zinc-burner.

Zinc is much more promising as a sacrificial metal since it can, in 
principle, be reduced back to metal in situ, whereas Al cannot. But zinc 
cells need a good dielectric membrane. Grove used clay ceramic. I had 
good results using GoreTex, but it eventually shorted, after not all 
that much time. Acid on one side and base on the other present severe 
corrosion problems for any thin material. This is on my list to redo 
with a ceramic.

A promising potential solution to the membrane problem was a company in 
Boulder founded by one of the Coors clan. It was call "Protonetics" or 
something like that, but went belly up. Efficient proton conductor 
ceramics are the holy grail of water electrochemistry. I guess that 
Coors did not have his fair share of the brewery stock. There is much 
talk about nano materials, but it is generally impossible to get hold of 
them without major financing.

Maybe a Grove cell offshoot of this would make a good science fair 
project , if either of you guys do tutoring:

http://www.selah.k12.wa.us/SOAR/SciProj2004/KatieM.html

Zinc has always seemed to me to have been to be underdeveloped for 
electrochemistry, as is the idea of an advance Grove battery/FC hybrid. 
It is potentially a cheap metal for big users, since there are large 
deposits everywhere. BTW - zinc foil is available, as is a colloid for 
"health uses" although I wouldn't risk it for anything other than an 
advanced Grove cell.

http://www.purestcolloids.com/mesozinc.htm

Jones





Nick Reiter wrote:
> Hi Keith,
> 
> Bubblin!
> 
> Well, if it goes like the ones Sam and I have played
> with, you should get some occcasional spurts of very
> high bubbling amidst the level that you plateau at,
> but then in probably 48 to 72 more hours it will begin
> to diminish, then at about another 48 hours beyond
> that, the Al will turn a gunmetal grey, and the water
> will be visibly murky, and the bubbling will slowly
> stop.
> 
> Now Sam claims that if you take the roll out, let it
> drip dry, then bake it in an oven at 300F for a couple
> of hours, once back in the water, it will kick in
> again with about the same cycle.  MAybe baking cracks
> open hydroxide layers or something.
> 
> Overall, its kinda novel, but without the "amalgam"
> such as KOH or NaOH, its self limiting.
> 
> n
> 
> --- Keith Nagel <NewCandleAdmin at ipdiscover.com> wrote:
> 
>> Hey Nick,
>>
>> Yeah, I seem to remember us discussing such a patent
>> a while
>> back here, the corrosion current was used as a
>> controlling
>> element for gas production. Jones probably remembers
>> it, I think
>> it was one of his finds?
>>
>> As regards the foil, after about 24 hours, I'm
>> gettin' plenty
>> of gas (burp). It'll be interesting to see what
>> things look
>> like a few months down the road. Will enough oxide
>> form
>> to stop the reaction? Or will it just continue
>> corroding
>> until all the aluminum ends up in solution. 
>>
>> K.
>>
> 
> 
> 
>  
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