From avalonbiker at yahoo.com Sat Dec 6 10:11:47 2008 From: avalonbiker at yahoo.com (Nick Reiter) Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2008 07:11:47 -0800 (PST) Subject: [NewCandle] aluminum holiday In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <426744.1830.qm@web65405.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Hi Keith, Sorry to drop the ball on this one for a week or so - much ado at the lab, and not much opportunity to focus on matters alchemical. A screening experiment sounds decent. I'll measure out how much AgNO3 I have in the packet, and see what would be prudent for a base reaction screening run. I could then run a second data point, with some arbitrary molar amount of AlNO3 (I'm thinking .01M)added to reduce the reaction rate. And do a baseline EDS on the aluminum surface as well. The best balance I have is a 1mg pan balance, in good condition and true reading. In my own experiments, I often use a .5mg minimum resolution (half unit). I'm far less familiar with conductivity testing for concentration, so I'll chew on that one. All said, though, I should be able to get the screening work organized this next week. In other news, I've been looking now with EDS at the eroded foil remains from the KCl + D2O aluminum foil roll hydrolysis (the latest "Pixie" bucket to have been run). This is the one where I took a preliminary look at whitish creeping salts a week or so ago, as the hydrolysis was just beginning to catalyze. I think I reported on how the small amount of D2O added once again attenuated or slowed the "sequence" leading up to bubbling hydrolysis. Once things kicked in, though, it was vigorous, and in the end, about 3 liters of water was consumed. This run had some curiosities. Using a candle-lighter, I could ignite bubble sheets on the water surface, and see the pale violet hue of K. As the bubbling passed its peak and began to drop off, I noticed that the flame front became clearer and even sounded less explosively "pop-ey" EDS of the foil surfaces didn't turn up anything exotic - being cautious about peak overlays and echoes. The oxides formed were curious though in their form - a bi-modal oxide crust on the Al surfaces - with a fused looking smooth surface underneath a layer of dogtooth blades... very un-alumina like; not the usual hex columnar growth. Another mystery is that of the appearance of sodium in an amount and distribution that seems WAY out of line (>1%) with the max amount of Na indicated in the starting KCl (said to be <.05%) Some possibly surprising appearances of Si and Fe again in borderline amounts. The appearance of too-much sodium is fodder for my thought, though. Have not yet figured out an "a-ha" to explain that one. Is there any LENR lore mentioning conversion of K into Na? All the best, nr > Very little hard information was available regarding > those Al/Ag xmutation > experiments. That said, the basic system is very > robust and was/is > used commercially to extract Ag from nitric acid > leached ore solutions. > This is essentially a displacement reaction: the Al > is dissolved and > goes into solution forming a more basic Al nitrate, > and the Ag is > plated out forming the characteristic "christmas > tree" dendritic > structure. The more Ag in solution, the faster will > be the displacement > reaction. The aluminum nitrate acts to reduce the > rate of displacement, > so you can conceivably have a fairly rich > concentration of Ag > and still have the slow displacement necessary to > (hopefully) > see the effect. > > I was able to find some more info from my old notes > when I went > looking for the work I did on that spark gap > oscillator. Using > 1/4 gram of silver nitrate in 10 ml of water, I > would see > a substantial reaction for about a week. This was > done in a > cold basement during winter, so the temps were quite > low > ( probably 50-60 degrees F ). You should try that > first, > and look at the resulting dendrites and substrate > under > the microscope to get a feel for what a "normal" > reaction > would be. > > The challenge then is to quantify the results. You > have better scales than I have/had access to, so if > you can make accurate milligram measures and achieve > consistant rates of recovery of the silver from the > resulting solutions, perhaps 100mg of silver per > experiment > would be a good target quantity. > > Alternately, one could try to redissolve the silver > with > more nitric acid, and measure concentration of > silver > ion before and after displacement. This appeals to > me > for several reasons, but I'm unsure how to do this > accurately. Any suggestions or product > recommendations? > The Holy Grail 'neath ancient Roslin waits. The blade and chalice guarding o'er Her gates. Adorned in the masters' loving art, She lies; She rests at last beneath the starry skies. From NewCandleAdmin at ipdiscover.com Mon Dec 8 15:42:49 2008 From: NewCandleAdmin at ipdiscover.com (Keith Nagel) Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 12:42:49 -0800 Subject: [NewCandle] aluminum holiday In-Reply-To: <426744.1830.qm@web65405.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hey nick, Yeah, I just did the release for Espacenet fix, and now that I'm into the code I'm just pushing ahead with the 2009 new feature release. Getting started on these things is always a bear, so once the boulder is rolling it's best to just press ahead. That said, the challenge with this experiment is proving that any xmutation is taking place. The more sensitive the detection method, the better chance we have of seeing some kind of effect so as to start moving in the right direction. I did some prelim work with a mg scale, but making a quantitative measure of the results requires 100% recovery of the silver just for starters so it's not so easy you know? Some will remain in solution unless you treat it, so there is plenty of room for error. For now, we can start with what we got, just to get a feel for what's happening on the micro scale when the displacement reaction takes place. I am not aware of any K->Na claims, but for the usual K+p or Na+p claims that several have made. Besides, that's going in the wrong direction huh? (grin). I think that there will be a substantial concentration of stray metals onto the aluminum as a result of the displacement reaction, so more sodium might be expected from normal chemistry. You know Nick, it strikes me that perhaps you've got a good idea but are going at it in the opposite direction. That is to say, have you tried doing one of these Al corrosion experiments as _slowly_ as possible. Get the reaction to play out over the course of several months, rather than days. Not nearly as exciting to a couple of unrepentant pyros, but perhaps more likely to produce some anomalous elemental xmutation. K. -----Original Message----- From: newcandle-bounces at ipdiscover.com [mailto:newcandle-bounces at ipdiscover.com]On Behalf Of Nick Reiter Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 7:12 AM To: New energy for the new world. Subject: Re: [NewCandle] aluminum holiday Hi Keith, Sorry to drop the ball on this one for a week or so - much ado at the lab, and not much opportunity to focus on matters alchemical. A screening experiment sounds decent. I'll measure out how much AgNO3 I have in the packet, and see what would be prudent for a base reaction screening run. I could then run a second data point, with some arbitrary molar amount of AlNO3 (I'm thinking .01M)added to reduce the reaction rate. And do a baseline EDS on the aluminum surface as well. The best balance I have is a 1mg pan balance, in good condition and true reading. In my own experiments, I often use a .5mg minimum resolution (half unit). I'm far less familiar with conductivity testing for concentration, so I'll chew on that one. All said, though, I should be able to get the screening work organized this next week. In other news, I've been looking now with EDS at the eroded foil remains from the KCl + D2O aluminum foil roll hydrolysis (the latest "Pixie" bucket to have been run). This is the one where I took a preliminary look at whitish creeping salts a week or so ago, as the hydrolysis was just beginning to catalyze. I think I reported on how the small amount of D2O added once again attenuated or slowed the "sequence" leading up to bubbling hydrolysis. Once things kicked in, though, it was vigorous, and in the end, about 3 liters of water was consumed. This run had some curiosities. Using a candle-lighter, I could ignite bubble sheets on the water surface, and see the pale violet hue of K. As the bubbling passed its peak and began to drop off, I noticed that the flame front became clearer and even sounded less explosively "pop-ey" EDS of the foil surfaces didn't turn up anything exotic - being cautious about peak overlays and echoes. The oxides formed were curious though in their form - a bi-modal oxide crust on the Al surfaces - with a fused looking smooth surface underneath a layer of dogtooth blades... very un-alumina like; not the usual hex columnar growth. Another mystery is that of the appearance of sodium in an amount and distribution that seems WAY out of line (>1%) with the max amount of Na indicated in the starting KCl (said to be <.05%) Some possibly surprising appearances of Si and Fe again in borderline amounts. The appearance of too-much sodium is fodder for my thought, though. Have not yet figured out an "a-ha" to explain that one. Is there any LENR lore mentioning conversion of K into Na? All the best, nr > Very little hard information was available regarding > those Al/Ag xmutation > experiments. That said, the basic system is very > robust and was/is > used commercially to extract Ag from nitric acid > leached ore solutions. > This is essentially a displacement reaction: the Al > is dissolved and > goes into solution forming a more basic Al nitrate, > and the Ag is > plated out forming the characteristic "christmas > tree" dendritic > structure. The more Ag in solution, the faster will > be the displacement > reaction. The aluminum nitrate acts to reduce the > rate of displacement, > so you can conceivably have a fairly rich > concentration of Ag > and still have the slow displacement necessary to > (hopefully) > see the effect. > > I was able to find some more info from my old notes > when I went > looking for the work I did on that spark gap > oscillator. Using > 1/4 gram of silver nitrate in 10 ml of water, I > would see > a substantial reaction for about a week. This was > done in a > cold basement during winter, so the temps were quite > low > ( probably 50-60 degrees F ). You should try that > first, > and look at the resulting dendrites and substrate > under > the microscope to get a feel for what a "normal" > reaction > would be. > > The challenge then is to quantify the results. You > have better scales than I have/had access to, so if > you can make accurate milligram measures and achieve > consistant rates of recovery of the silver from the > resulting solutions, perhaps 100mg of silver per > experiment > would be a good target quantity. > > Alternately, one could try to redissolve the silver > with > more nitric acid, and measure concentration of > silver > ion before and after displacement. This appeals to > me > for several reasons, but I'm unsure how to do this > accurately. Any suggestions or product > recommendations? > The Holy Grail 'neath ancient Roslin waits. The blade and chalice guarding o'er Her gates. Adorned in the masters' loving art, She lies; She rests at last beneath the starry skies. _______________________________________________ NewCandle mailing list NewCandle at ipdiscover.com http://ipdiscover.com/mailman/listinfo/newcandle_ipdiscover.com From avalonbiker at yahoo.com Mon Dec 8 17:32:33 2008 From: avalonbiker at yahoo.com (Nick Reiter) Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 14:32:33 -0800 (PST) Subject: [NewCandle] Entish aluminum holiday In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <406388.27310.qm@web65406.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Hi Keith, By Jove, yes, I do see your point (as if we hadn't been dancing on top of it now for some weeks!) Extended hydrolysis of close rolled Al foil would certainly be an easy enough arrangement in concept, to keep running "in the backround". It resonates to the principles of alchemy if nothing else! And that may not be a bad thing obviously... Now that brings to mind something else that might be worth my time checking. Most of these various salt hydrolysis runs in the past 6 months or so end up with me waiting until the bubbling is mostly done, then removal of the spent crusty Al rolls and cleaning of the buckets and disposal of the brine. However, since I usually just take out one foil roll, slice it open for samples, and reserve that section, I often leave the rest to stew in their juices on the back porch until the water evaporates or I need the plastic bucket. I've never pulled another Al foil sample 3 months after I took the initial roll for EDS... because I presumed that the rest was just sitting there idle, after the reaction was spent. But maybe not. The most recent bucket, with the KCl and a bit of D20... perhaps I ought to cover it to prevent evaporation and just let it sit in the corner of the kitchen til March, and pull another roll at that time for EDS... We are such hasty little orcs. Wickedly good notions though - thanks very much! n > You know Nick, it strikes me that perhaps you've got > a good > idea but are going at it in the opposite direction. > That is > to say, have you tried doing one of these Al > corrosion experiments > as _slowly_ as possible. Get the reaction to play > out over > the course of several months, rather than days. Not > nearly > as exciting to a couple of unrepentant pyros, but > perhaps > more likely to produce some anomalous elemental > xmutation. > > K. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: newcandle-bounces at ipdiscover.com > [mailto:newcandle-bounces at ipdiscover.com]On Behalf > Of Nick Reiter > Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 7:12 AM > To: New energy for the new world. > Subject: Re: [NewCandle] aluminum holiday > > > Hi Keith, > > Sorry to drop the ball on this one for a week or so > - > much ado at the lab, and not much opportunity to > focus > on matters alchemical. > > A screening experiment sounds decent. I'll measure > out how much AgNO3 I have in the packet, and see > what > would be prudent for a base reaction screening run. > I > could then run a second data point, with some > arbitrary molar amount of AlNO3 (I'm thinking > .01M)added to reduce the reaction rate. And do a > baseline EDS on the aluminum surface as well. > > The best balance I have is a 1mg pan balance, in > good > condition and true reading. In my own experiments, > I > often use a .5mg minimum resolution (half unit). > I'm > far less familiar with conductivity testing for > concentration, so I'll chew on that one. > > All said, though, I should be able to get the > screening work organized this next week. > > In other news, I've been looking now with EDS at the > eroded foil remains from the KCl + D2O aluminum foil > roll hydrolysis (the latest "Pixie" bucket to have > been run). This is the one where I took a > preliminary > look at whitish creeping salts a week or so ago, as > the hydrolysis was just beginning to catalyze. > > I think I reported on how the small amount of D2O > added once again attenuated or slowed the "sequence" > leading up to bubbling hydrolysis. Once things > kicked > in, though, it was vigorous, and in the end, about 3 > liters of water was consumed. > > This run had some curiosities. Using a > candle-lighter, I could ignite bubble sheets on the > water surface, and see the pale violet hue of K. As > the bubbling passed its peak and began to drop off, > I > noticed that the flame front became clearer and even > sounded less explosively "pop-ey" > > EDS of the foil surfaces didn't turn up anything > exotic - being cautious about peak overlays and > echoes. The oxides formed were curious though in > their form - a bi-modal oxide crust on the Al > surfaces > - with a fused looking smooth surface underneath a > layer of dogtooth blades... very un-alumina like; > not > the usual hex columnar growth. > > Another mystery is that of the appearance of sodium > in > an amount and distribution that seems WAY out of > line > (>1%) with the max amount of Na indicated in the > starting KCl (said to be <.05%) > > Some possibly surprising appearances of Si and Fe > again in borderline amounts. > > The appearance of too-much sodium is fodder for my > thought, though. Have not yet figured out an "a-ha" > to explain that one. Is there any LENR lore > mentioning conversion of K into Na? > > All the best, > > nr > > > > > Very little hard information was available > regarding > > those Al/Ag xmutation > > experiments. That said, the basic system is very > > robust and was/is > > used commercially to extract Ag from nitric acid > > leached ore solutions. > > This is essentially a displacement reaction: the > Al > > is dissolved and > > goes into solution forming a more basic Al > nitrate, > > and the Ag is > > plated out forming the characteristic "christmas > > tree" dendritic > > structure. The more Ag in solution, the faster > will > > be the displacement > > reaction. The aluminum nitrate acts to reduce the > > rate of displacement, > > so you can conceivably have a fairly rich > > concentration of Ag > > and still have the slow displacement necessary to > > (hopefully) > > see the effect. > > > > I was able to find some more info from my old > notes > > when I went > > looking for the work I did on that spark gap > > oscillator. Using > > 1/4 gram of silver nitrate in 10 ml of water, I > > would see > > a substantial reaction for about a week. This was > > done in a > > cold basement during winter, so the temps were > quite > > low > > ( probably 50-60 degrees F ). You should try that > > first, > > and look at the resulting dendrites and substrate > > under > > the microscope to get a feel for what a "normal" > === message truncated === The Holy Grail 'neath ancient Roslin waits. The blade and chalice guarding o'er Her gates. Adorned in the masters' loving art, She lies; She rests at last beneath the starry skies. From avalonbiker at yahoo.com Tue Dec 9 14:10:22 2008 From: avalonbiker at yahoo.com (Nick Reiter) Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 11:10:22 -0800 (PST) Subject: [NewCandle] aluminum holiday In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <582003.69692.qm@web65411.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Hi Keith, Quick query - of the two aluminum strips you provided for silver growth, which one represents the Al used by your old transmutational contact? n > Yeah, I just did the release for Espacenet fix, and > now that > I'm into the code I'm just pushing ahead with the > 2009 new > feature release. Getting started on these things is > always > a bear, so once the boulder is rolling it's best to > just > press ahead. > > That said, the challenge with this experiment is > proving > that any xmutation is taking place. The more > sensitive the > detection method, the better chance we have of > seeing some > kind of effect so as to start moving in the right > direction. > I did some prelim work with a mg scale, but making a > quantitative > measure of the results requires 100% recovery of the > silver > just for starters so it's not so easy you know? Some > will remain in solution unless you treat it, so > there > is plenty of room for error. > > For now, we can start with what we got, just to get > a feel > for what's happening on the micro scale when the > displacement > reaction takes place. > > I am not aware of any K->Na claims, but for the > usual K+p or Na+p > claims that several have made. Besides, that's going > in the > wrong direction huh? (grin). I think that there will > be a > substantial concentration of stray metals onto the > aluminum > as a result of the displacement reaction, so more > sodium > might be expected from normal chemistry. > > You know Nick, it strikes me that perhaps you've got > a good > idea but are going at it in the opposite direction. > That is > to say, have you tried doing one of these Al > corrosion experiments > as _slowly_ as possible. Get the reaction to play > out over > the course of several months, rather than days. Not > nearly > as exciting to a couple of unrepentant pyros, but > perhaps > more likely to produce some anomalous elemental > xmutation. > > K. > The Holy Grail 'neath ancient Roslin waits. The blade and chalice guarding o'er Her gates. Adorned in the masters' loving art, She lies; She rests at last beneath the starry skies. From NewCandleAdmin at ipdiscover.com Wed Dec 10 14:02:20 2008 From: NewCandleAdmin at ipdiscover.com (Keith Nagel) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 11:02:20 -0800 Subject: [NewCandle] aluminum holiday In-Reply-To: <582003.69692.qm@web65411.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hey Nick, The one with the hole in it is the claimed original material. The other happens to be an alloy that I have a lot of. K. -----Original Message----- From: newcandle-bounces at ipdiscover.com [mailto:newcandle-bounces at ipdiscover.com]On Behalf Of Nick Reiter Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 11:10 AM To: New energy for the new world. Subject: Re: [NewCandle] aluminum holiday Hi Keith, Quick query - of the two aluminum strips you provided for silver growth, which one represents the Al used by your old transmutational contact? n > Yeah, I just did the release for Espacenet fix, and > now that > I'm into the code I'm just pushing ahead with the > 2009 new > feature release. Getting started on these things is > always > a bear, so once the boulder is rolling it's best to > just > press ahead. > > That said, the challenge with this experiment is > proving > that any xmutation is taking place. The more > sensitive the > detection method, the better chance we have of > seeing some > kind of effect so as to start moving in the right > direction. > I did some prelim work with a mg scale, but making a > quantitative > measure of the results requires 100% recovery of the > silver > just for starters so it's not so easy you know? Some > will remain in solution unless you treat it, so > there > is plenty of room for error. > > For now, we can start with what we got, just to get > a feel > for what's happening on the micro scale when the > displacement > reaction takes place. > > I am not aware of any K->Na claims, but for the > usual K+p or Na+p > claims that several have made. Besides, that's going > in the > wrong direction huh? (grin). I think that there will > be a > substantial concentration of stray metals onto the > aluminum > as a result of the displacement reaction, so more > sodium > might be expected from normal chemistry. > > You know Nick, it strikes me that perhaps you've got > a good > idea but are going at it in the opposite direction. > That is > to say, have you tried doing one of these Al > corrosion experiments > as _slowly_ as possible. Get the reaction to play > out over > the course of several months, rather than days. Not > nearly > as exciting to a couple of unrepentant pyros, but > perhaps > more likely to produce some anomalous elemental > xmutation. > > K. > The Holy Grail 'neath ancient Roslin waits. The blade and chalice guarding o'er Her gates. Adorned in the masters' loving art, She lies; She rests at last beneath the starry skies. _______________________________________________ NewCandle mailing list NewCandle at ipdiscover.com http://ipdiscover.com/mailman/listinfo/newcandle_ipdiscover.com From avalonbiker at yahoo.com Wed Dec 10 14:01:18 2008 From: avalonbiker at yahoo.com (Nick Reiter) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 11:01:18 -0800 (PST) Subject: [NewCandle] aluminum holiday In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <727846.63260.qm@web65416.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Hi Keith, OK, all that is duly recorded. Thank you! I ran some EDS on shavings from both samples, to serve as baseline. Overall, the original alloy material is purer. Can't quite place the alloy, as far as what series. It has a tiny bit of carbon, and about 1.5% magnesium. Low oxygen content. No Si, Cu, or Fe. The strip from your stockpile might be a 4000 series. It has a little Mg (less than 1%) and a little Si also. It also seems to be a higher oxygen alloy. I took 650mg of the silver nitrate, and dissolved it in DI water to make about 38ml of .1M solution at RT. This seems like a good stock solution to work out of for an initial screening and growth test. I think that by carefully watching the molarity and volume of starting solutions, and careful weighing of starting aluminum, the amount of available silver should be fairly well known at any time. Anything as an outcome that deviates from that by maybe 10% or so should be easy to pick out with a milligram balance. N > Hey Nick, > > The one with the hole in it is the claimed original > material. > The other happens to be an alloy that I have a lot > of. > > K. The Holy Grail 'neath ancient Roslin waits. The blade and chalice guarding o'er Her gates. Adorned in the masters' loving art, She lies; She rests at last beneath the starry skies. From hheffner at mtaonline.net Thu Dec 11 13:39:38 2008 From: hheffner at mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 09:39:38 -0900 Subject: [NewCandle] aluminum holiday In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3E85C1CD-BAB1-44F2-B147-BA7243BDCB84@mtaonline.net> On Dec 8, 2008, at 11:42 AM, Keith Nagel wrote: > > You know Nick, it strikes me that perhaps you've got a good > idea but are going at it in the opposite direction. That is > to say, have you tried doing one of these Al corrosion experiments > as _slowly_ as possible. Get the reaction to play out over > the course of several months, rather than days. Not nearly > as exciting to a couple of unrepentant pyros, but perhaps > more likely to produce some anomalous elemental xmutation. > > K. To throw an idea into the pot, or a pot into the idea, what about using steam? The temperature can then be pushed very high. Pressure can be pushed high too with the right hardware, but that might be a bit dangerous and costly. I suggest this in part because of the transmutation C12->C13 supposedly observed by Mizuno: http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/MizunoTanomaloushb.pdf in a high pressure hydrogen plus helium environment, and which has been discussed extensively on vortex-l. The foil you use, or some other material, may have enough carbon to have a detectible effect, and who knows how aluminum itself might react? Temperature is extremely important in OH + Al reactions. A pressure cooker might be of use, but the pressure relief would have to be a lot better. Also, water recovery would have to be used for longer term running. A fairly long plastic hose could be used for a reflux distilling type recovery system. Maybe just a plain pot with a hole drilled in the ordinary lid for attaching a water recovery system would be enough. A sudden excursion would just blow the lid off. Best regards, Horace Heffner http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/ From NewCandleAdmin at ipdiscover.com Thu Dec 11 14:35:10 2008 From: NewCandleAdmin at ipdiscover.com (Keith Nagel) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 11:35:10 -0800 Subject: [NewCandle] aluminum holiday In-Reply-To: <3E85C1CD-BAB1-44F2-B147-BA7243BDCB84@mtaonline.net> Message-ID: Hi Horace, That sort of brings us full circle to our previous group project of anodic glow discharge on aluminum. At that time, I was seeing some rather amusing effects using a carbon laden electrolyte ( tartrate ) and carbon cathode as seen here. http://www.kpnconsulting.com/Research9.htm We have aluminum, carbon, and temperatures high enough to form corundum. Who knows? It's a remarkable system, and I'd love to go back and work with it some more. While I don't read vortex much these days, I was amused by Jeds recent missive about Mizuno having trouble finding homes for his test equipment because, as he put it, "no one does experiments nowadays". I had to laugh about that. He's right. No one does. Well, if he's still looking, I'll take whatever he's got. And I can guarantee him that they'll be used for their intended purpose. I'll split it with Nick, I know he still keeps the faith in an external reality that we can know through experimentation. I think we lost everyone else though (grin). There's just no money in it, you know... external reality, that is. K. -----Original Message----- From: newcandle-bounces at ipdiscover.com [mailto:newcandle-bounces at ipdiscover.com]On Behalf Of Horace Heffner Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 10:40 AM To: New energy for the new world. Subject: Re: [NewCandle] aluminum holiday On Dec 8, 2008, at 11:42 AM, Keith Nagel wrote: > > You know Nick, it strikes me that perhaps you've got a good > idea but are going at it in the opposite direction. That is > to say, have you tried doing one of these Al corrosion experiments > as _slowly_ as possible. Get the reaction to play out over > the course of several months, rather than days. Not nearly > as exciting to a couple of unrepentant pyros, but perhaps > more likely to produce some anomalous elemental xmutation. > > K. To throw an idea into the pot, or a pot into the idea, what about using steam? The temperature can then be pushed very high. Pressure can be pushed high too with the right hardware, but that might be a bit dangerous and costly. I suggest this in part because of the transmutation C12->C13 supposedly observed by Mizuno: http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/MizunoTanomaloushb.pdf in a high pressure hydrogen plus helium environment, and which has been discussed extensively on vortex-l. The foil you use, or some other material, may have enough carbon to have a detectible effect, and who knows how aluminum itself might react? Temperature is extremely important in OH + Al reactions. A pressure cooker might be of use, but the pressure relief would have to be a lot better. Also, water recovery would have to be used for longer term running. A fairly long plastic hose could be used for a reflux distilling type recovery system. Maybe just a plain pot with a hole drilled in the ordinary lid for attaching a water recovery system would be enough. A sudden excursion would just blow the lid off. Best regards, Horace Heffner http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/ _______________________________________________ NewCandle mailing list NewCandle at ipdiscover.com http://ipdiscover.com/mailman/listinfo/newcandle_ipdiscover.com From avalonbiker at yahoo.com Thu Dec 11 14:37:04 2008 From: avalonbiker at yahoo.com (Nick Reiter) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 11:37:04 -0800 (PST) Subject: [NewCandle] aluminum holiday In-Reply-To: <3E85C1CD-BAB1-44F2-B147-BA7243BDCB84@mtaonline.net> Message-ID: <357819.33599.qm@web65412.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Hi Horace, Very interesting, thanks for the thought. Adding T and P is something I have not done yet, intentionally, although I suspect that the rupture-like aspect of some of the pinholing in the deep foil rolls is saying some localized pressures are building up, as well as heat. But adding some of one or both in the form of a pressure vessel could be wild - agreed. The so called "Pixie" trials, with Al foil rolls and salts for hydrolysis, have all been conducted in plastic polypropylene buckets, and so thus carbon could be in abundance where it might not in a stainless steel or glass vessel. n > in a high pressure hydrogen plus helium environment, > and which has > been discussed extensively on vortex-l. The foil > you use, or some > other material, may have enough carbon to have a > detectible effect, > and who knows how aluminum itself might react? > Temperature is > extremely important in OH + Al reactions. > > A pressure cooker might be of use, but the pressure > relief would have > to be a lot better. Also, water recovery would have > to be used for > longer term running. A fairly long plastic hose > could be used for a > reflux distilling type recovery system. Maybe just > a plain pot with > a hole drilled in the ordinary lid for attaching a > water recovery > system would be enough. A sudden excursion would > just blow the lid off. The Holy Grail 'neath ancient Roslin waits. The blade and chalice guarding o'er Her gates. Adorned in the masters' loving art, She lies; She rests at last beneath the starry skies. From avalonbiker at yahoo.com Thu Dec 11 14:45:34 2008 From: avalonbiker at yahoo.com (Nick Reiter) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 11:45:34 -0800 (PST) Subject: [NewCandle] aluminum holiday In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <928203.41229.qm@web65404.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Amen to that, sadly. I hadn't been on Vort in a couple of months at least, but somewhere through the Matrix I recall hearing word of Mizuno getting out and trying to find a torch bearer. Maybe it was dropped as a mention here once or twice. You know, I do have to wonder as well whether the last of the amateur boy (and girl) mad scientists have retreated to US, Cda, UK, and AU... they sure ain't in Germany. On my trips over to the Leipzig area, I got to hobnob and socialize with quite a few of the techies, engineers, and scientists within the extended corporate family. It seems like here, every modest sized company has maybe 2 or 3 amateur scientists or hobbyists who prick up their ears and jump in when talk turns to strange energy and home experiments. But all I got over there was blank incomprehending looks that spoke, "why-ever would you do things like that on your own time? Don't you just go home, have supper, watch TV, and go to bed?" Uhhh. No. sad. n > While I don't read vortex much these days, I was > amused > by Jeds recent missive about Mizuno having trouble > finding > homes for his test equipment because, as he put it, > "no one does experiments nowadays". I had to laugh > about > that. He's right. No one does. Well, if he's still > looking, I'll take whatever he's got. And I can > guarantee him that they'll be used for their > intended > purpose. I'll split it with Nick, I know he still > keeps the faith in an external reality that we can > know through experimentation. I think we lost > everyone > else though (grin). There's just no money in it, you > know... > external reality, that is. > The Holy Grail 'neath ancient Roslin waits. The blade and chalice guarding o'er Her gates. Adorned in the masters' loving art, She lies; She rests at last beneath the starry skies. From jonesb9 at pacbell.net Thu Dec 11 14:47:00 2008 From: jonesb9 at pacbell.net (Jones Beene) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 11:47:00 -0800 (PST) Subject: [NewCandle] aluminum holiday Message-ID: <937955.44967.qm@web82703.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Keith > That sort of brings us full circle to our previous > group project of anodic glow discharge on aluminum. > At that time, I was seeing some rather amusing > effects using a carbon laden electrolyte ( tartrate ) > and carbon cathode as seen here. Hmmm... worth noting that *luminescence* has bee documented in similar circumstances: http://article.pubs.nrc-cnrc.gc.ca/ppv/RPViewDoc?issn=1480-3291&volume=55&issue=7&startPage=1193 At least four different tartrates are luminescenct including the common 'cream of tartar' used in cooking (monopotassium tartrate) I have an evolving hypothesis for a direct linkage betweenluminescence and gradual LENR effects. Jones From hheffner at mtaonline.net Thu Dec 11 15:08:06 2008 From: hheffner at mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 11:08:06 -0900 Subject: [NewCandle] aluminum holiday In-Reply-To: <937955.44967.qm@web82703.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <937955.44967.qm@web82703.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <14964C8A-65AA-43A0-800F-2FFD664DC884@mtaonline.net> On Dec 11, 2008, at 10:47 AM, Jones Beene wrote: > > Hmmm... worth noting that *luminescence* has bee documented in > similar circumstances: > > http://article.pubs.nrc-cnrc.gc.ca/ppv/RPViewDoc? > issn=1480-3291&volume=55&issue=7&startPage=1193 > Jones, that is a really cool article! Nick, do you think you can resolve C13 vs C12? Best regards, Horace Heffner http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/ From avalonbiker at yahoo.com Thu Dec 11 15:11:03 2008 From: avalonbiker at yahoo.com (Nick Reiter) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 12:11:03 -0800 (PST) Subject: [NewCandle] silver dendrite deposition trial In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <686185.38356.qm@web65407.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Hi Keith, Well, I have a small sealed volumetric flask now set up with an Ag growth trial within it. Here's the protocol. I had taken .649g of the AgNO3 and made a .1M solution in DI water. This gave me 38ml of working stock "broth". I took a small strip, about 8mm x 12mm from Keith's aluminum, and etched it in KOH for a few minutes to give a smooth mat finish. This was rinsed, dried, and weighed. I then bent the strip slightly to make a little tent, placed it in a 50ml volumetric flask, and re-weighed. 10ml of DI H2O was added, then 4.0ml of the .1M AgNO3 solution. The flask was then capped. If the reaction proceeds, then I will allow it to progress until I see no more change in any growth. I will then decant off the liquor, rinse gently, decant again, and then dry. By my calculations and notes, if 100% of the available silver in solution plates out or goes to dendrites, I should get 43.4 mg of Ag. The molar amount of Al lost in the process to the brine should be easily calculated, and the weight differential ought to represent the effectiveness of the reaction. At T+ 40 minutes or so, just a slight darkening of the Al surface... n The Holy Grail 'neath ancient Roslin waits. The blade and chalice guarding o'er Her gates. Adorned in the masters' loving art, She lies; She rests at last beneath the starry skies. From avalonbiker at yahoo.com Thu Dec 11 15:15:58 2008 From: avalonbiker at yahoo.com (Nick Reiter) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 12:15:58 -0800 (PST) Subject: [NewCandle] aluminum holiday In-Reply-To: <937955.44967.qm@web82703.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <297818.43749.qm@web65407.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Oh that is a very cool paper! Excellent find!!! nr --- Jones Beene wrote: > Keith > > > > That sort of brings us full circle to our previous > > group project of anodic glow discharge on > aluminum. > > At that time, I was seeing some rather amusing > > effects using a carbon laden electrolyte ( > tartrate ) > > and carbon cathode as seen here. > > Hmmm... worth noting that *luminescence* has bee > documented in similar circumstances: > > http://article.pubs.nrc-cnrc.gc.ca/ppv/RPViewDoc?issn=1480-3291&volume=55&issue=7&startPage=1193 > > At least four different tartrates are luminescenct > including the common 'cream of tartar' used in > cooking (monopotassium tartrate) > > I have an evolving hypothesis for a direct linkage > betweenluminescence and gradual LENR effects. > > Jones > > _______________________________________________ > NewCandle mailing list > NewCandle at ipdiscover.com > http://ipdiscover.com/mailman/listinfo/newcandle_ipdiscover.com > The Holy Grail 'neath ancient Roslin waits. The blade and chalice guarding o'er Her gates. Adorned in the masters' loving art, She lies; She rests at last beneath the starry skies. From jonesb9 at pacbell.net Thu Dec 11 15:32:25 2008 From: jonesb9 at pacbell.net (Jones Beene) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 12:32:25 -0800 (PST) Subject: [NewCandle] aluminum holiday Message-ID: <993377.5449.qm@web82702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Horace I think they might have gotten it both half-right and half-wrong in focusing on oxygen "The reduction of the light intensity to nearly zero at higher voltages cannot be easily explained by solid state electrolumines- cence. " That part is right. "If the origin of light is solid state electro- luminescence then it is probable that the light intensity is a monotonously increasing function of current. However, the Faradaic current (as estimated from an oscilloscopic trace) is ca. five times higher at 9 V than at 4 V, although the light intensity itself is nearly zero (Fig. 7). " So far so good --- "If we adopt the ad hoc hypothesis that the light arises from a chemiluminescent reaction involving oxygen radicals, there are several alternative explanations" OK while it is true that the hydroxl radical could be the key player, they are using sodium tartrate - and sodium is also the key to Mill's new reactor. However, there is reason to believe that potassium tartrate would do better in this situation - or perhaps a combination of Na and K. At any rate- my take is that this is similar to Mizuno in that ZPE pumping of the epo field at 3.4 eV is the active pathway for any anomaly seen. In this case, the anomaly may only be in light emission, perhaps some transmutation. It is not unreasonable to suspect some LENR - especially Na-->Ca or 12C-->13C where the excess energy is minimal or nonexistent will happen but can it be documented?. Nick - there is no doubt you can distinguish Na from Ca but the problem would be in keeping Calcium totally out of the experiment to begin with, since it is so ubiquitous and can leach from glass etc. Jones From jonesb9 at pacbell.net Thu Dec 11 15:42:26 2008 From: jonesb9 at pacbell.net (Jones Beene) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 12:42:26 -0800 (PST) Subject: [NewCandle] aluminum holiday Message-ID: <843247.28420.qm@web82701.mail.mud.yahoo.com> OOPS look like I was experienceing a "senior moment" there - it is Na --> Mg not calcium although the K --> Ca is another LENR route (what we can call the Kervan's chicken pathway ;-) Horace, those "senior moments" are contagious - watch out... Jones ----- Original Message ---- > From: Jones Beene > Horace > > > I think they might have gotten it both half-right and half-wrong in focusing on > oxygen > > "The reduction of the light intensity to nearly zero at higher voltages > cannot be > easily explained by solid state electrolumines- > cence. " > > That part is right. > > "If the origin of light is solid state electro- > luminescence then it is probable that the light > intensity is a monotonously increasing function > of current. However, the Faradaic current > (as estimated from an oscilloscopic trace) is > ca. five times higher at 9 V than at 4 V, > although the light intensity itself is nearly zero > (Fig. 7). " > > So far so good --- > > "If we adopt the ad hoc hypothesis > that the light arises from a chemiluminescent > reaction involving oxygen radicals, there are > several alternative explanations" > > OK while it is true that the hydroxl radical could be the key player, they are > using sodium tartrate - and sodium is also the key to Mill's new reactor. > However, there is reason to believe that potassium tartrate would do better in > this situation - or perhaps a combination of Na and K. > > At any rate- my take is that this is similar to Mizuno in that ZPE pumping of > the epo field at 3.4 eV is the active pathway for any anomaly seen. > > In this case, the anomaly may only be in light emission, perhaps some > transmutation. It is not unreasonable to suspect some LENR - especially Na-->Ca > or 12C-->13C where the excess energy is minimal or nonexistent will happen but > can it be documented?. > > Nick - there is no doubt you can distinguish Na from Ca but the problem would be > in keeping Calcium totally out of the experiment to begin with, since it is so > ubiquitous and can leach from glass etc. > > Jones > > > _______________________________________________ > NewCandle mailing list > NewCandle at ipdiscover.com > http://ipdiscover.com/mailman/listinfo/newcandle_ipdiscover.com From hheffner at mtaonline.net Thu Dec 11 16:12:59 2008 From: hheffner at mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 12:12:59 -0900 Subject: [NewCandle] aluminum holiday In-Reply-To: <993377.5449.qm@web82702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <993377.5449.qm@web82702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <35686E50-FE8C-4184-B59F-9DBBE7B746BF@mtaonline.net> On Dec 11, 2008, at 11:32 AM, Jones Beene wrote: > "If the origin of light is solid state electro- > luminescence then it is probable that the light > intensity is a monotonously increasing function > of current. This is exactly what I observed for anode glow at much higher voltages, i.e. 300-1000V. I could instantly dial the brightness by simply turning the variac dial and thereby increasing current. I was using a scope and current measuring resistor. I don't think the author's conclusion above necessarily applies to HV anodes though. I see the author's or editor's spell checker probably rejected "monotonically" and substituted "monotonously", which it is anything but. 8^) In any case you have to keep in mind the focus of the author's work is the *cathode*, and the glow range is so low that a photomultiplier tube had to be used, and the voltage range was a mere 0-10 V. I don't think it follows that HV anode glow is necessarily solid state, i.e. electron-hole annihilation, though I did suggest the possibility in my 2006 vortex posts on the subject, summarized here (see p.13 for note on e-hole annihilation): http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/GlowExper.pdf Best regards, Horace Heffner http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/ From hheffner at mtaonline.net Thu Dec 11 16:14:12 2008 From: hheffner at mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 12:14:12 -0900 Subject: [NewCandle] aluminum holiday In-Reply-To: <843247.28420.qm@web82701.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <843247.28420.qm@web82701.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Dec 11, 2008, at 11:42 AM, Jones Beene wrote: > OOPS > > look like I was experienceing a "senior moment" there - it is Na -- > > Mg not calcium although the K --> Ca is another LENR route (what > we can call the Kervan's chicken pathway ;-) > > Horace, those "senior moments" are contagious - watch out... > > Jones > Not to worry, I've been infected a long time. 8^| Best regards, Horace Heffner http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/ From mixent at bigpond.com Wed Dec 10 21:06:48 2008 From: mixent at bigpond.com (mixent at bigpond.com) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 13:06:48 +1100 Subject: [NewCandle] Windharvesting In-Reply-To: <833906.98732.qm@web65403.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> References: <74233.27857.qm@web82701.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <833906.98732.qm@web65403.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5er0k4lppdh5a6bfp1d98r7hvnh94nkbf9@4ax.com> In reply to Nick Reiter's message of Tue, 4 Nov 2008 06:45:43 -0800 (PST): Hi, See e.g. http://www.iop.org/EJ/abstract/0508-3443/15/8/308 [snip] >This has been some wonderful discussion about Aeolian >generators, etc... > >So here is some wind-harvest notion from another >angle. And in keeping with Newcandle spirit, yes, I >have experimented with this, though results were >null-to-almost. > >Here is the thought. In any volume of air there are a >certain number of ions, in some ratio (N2, O2, CO2, >Ar) Both positive and negative. Where you are, >indoors, outdoors, landscape, water machinery, power >grid, all contribute to determining this yield. > >It should be possible to harvest these ions. I've >envisioned several embodiments. One would be a set of >fine wire grids through which the wind would pass. >One might bias the grids to attract the respective >ionic charge carriers. > >OR, conversely, one could use magnetic separation. >Long chutes or windsocks lined with strong magnets, >and metalized collector zones on the inner surfaces. > >The embodiment I had played with last year was the >latter - just simple experiments of blowing room air >with a muffin fan through a plastic pipe with inner >foil strips and external magnets. Maybe a few mV here >and there, but indeterminate. > >My research was bogged down in trying to find accurate >estimates of natural ion yield per cubic meter, for >example. On-line, I had a hard time finding anything >other than values being tendered by people trying to >sell ionizers! > >Thats my wind-surfing for the day;) > >n > >The Holy Grail 'neath ancient Roslin waits. >The blade and chalice guarding o'er Her gates. >Adorned in the masters' loving art, She lies; >She rests at last beneath the starry skies. > > > > >_______________________________________________ >NewCandle mailing list >NewCandle at ipdiscover.com >http://ipdiscover.com/mailman/listinfo/newcandle_ipdiscover.com Regards, Robin van Spaandonk From johnsteck at tetrahelix.com Fri Dec 12 16:20:22 2008 From: johnsteck at tetrahelix.com (John Steck) Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 15:20:22 -0600 Subject: [NewCandle] Windharvesting References: <74233.27857.qm@web82701.mail.mud.yahoo.com><833906.98732.qm@web65403.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> <5er0k4lppdh5a6bfp1d98r7hvnh94nkbf9@4ax.com> Message-ID: <6953DFEEC84442299AB6834A72EA6D92@Proteus> Not to be a freetard, but anyone have a copy already to avoid spending $30 to read it? Thanks for posting this BTW. -john -------------------------------------------------- From: Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 8:06 PM To: "New energy for the new world." Subject: Re: [NewCandle] Windharvesting > In reply to Nick Reiter's message of Tue, 4 Nov 2008 06:45:43 -0800 > (PST): > Hi, > > > See e.g. http://www.iop.org/EJ/abstract/0508-3443/15/8/308 > > [snip] >>This has been some wonderful discussion about Aeolian >>generators, etc... >> >>So here is some wind-harvest notion from another >>angle. And in keeping with Newcandle spirit, yes, I >>have experimented with this, though results were >>null-to-almost. >> >>Here is the thought. In any volume of air there are a >>certain number of ions, in some ratio (N2, O2, CO2, >>Ar) Both positive and negative. Where you are, >>indoors, outdoors, landscape, water machinery, power >>grid, all contribute to determining this yield. >> >>It should be possible to harvest these ions. I've >>envisioned several embodiments. One would be a set of >>fine wire grids through which the wind would pass. >>One might bias the grids to attract the respective >>ionic charge carriers. >> >>OR, conversely, one could use magnetic separation. >>Long chutes or windsocks lined with strong magnets, >>and metalized collector zones on the inner surfaces. >> >>The embodiment I had played with last year was the >>latter - just simple experiments of blowing room air >>with a muffin fan through a plastic pipe with inner >>foil strips and external magnets. Maybe a few mV here >>and there, but indeterminate. >> >>My research was bogged down in trying to find accurate >>estimates of natural ion yield per cubic meter, for >>example. On-line, I had a hard time finding anything >>other than values being tendered by people trying to >>sell ionizers! >> >>Thats my wind-surfing for the day;) >> >>n >> >>The Holy Grail 'neath ancient Roslin waits. >>The blade and chalice guarding o'er Her gates. >>Adorned in the masters' loving art, She lies; >>She rests at last beneath the starry skies. >> >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>NewCandle mailing list >>NewCandle at ipdiscover.com >>http://ipdiscover.com/mailman/listinfo/newcandle_ipdiscover.com > Regards, > > Robin van Spaandonk > > _______________________________________________ > NewCandle mailing list > NewCandle at ipdiscover.com > http://ipdiscover.com/mailman/listinfo/newcandle_ipdiscover.com From avalonbiker at yahoo.com Sun Dec 14 13:33:37 2008 From: avalonbiker at yahoo.com (Nick Reiter) Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 10:33:37 -0800 (PST) Subject: [NewCandle] Silver aluminum screening experiment In-Reply-To: <6953DFEEC84442299AB6834A72EA6D92@Proteus> Message-ID: <209338.13566.qm@web65415.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Hi Keith and all, As I reported a couple of days ago, I had a small piece of Keith's aluminum alloy strip in a volumetric flask undergoing the Ag-Al exchange reaction, as a precursor or screening experiment. The objective here was three-fold: 1. Get an idea of the rate of reaction with Al of that particular alloy, at room temperature. 2. Get an idea of the effectiveness of the ionic exchange. 3. Get an idea about how effective the overall protocol was... if a piece of aluminum undergoing some very slow transmutation anomaly produces extra silver, how confident can we be in our protocol to observe this clearly, if it would occur. The growth of silver dendrites in the weak AgNO3:H2O solution on Keith's metal occured. In 24 hours, it appeared to the eye that no further growth was occuring. At T+30 hours, the liquor from the flask was decanted, the metal and dendritic silver was gently irrigated as a rinse, drained out again, and the system was dried on a hotplate at 120C. When cool, I re-weighed the flask system. By calculation, there should have been 43.4 milligrams of Ag available for exchange, and thus dendritic deposition. This equalled 4.02336E-4 moles of silver. If we consider the exchange of Ag for Al, then the weight of Al placed into solution (and decanted off) should have been 10.9 mg. Thus, if the exchange was 100% effective in 30 hours of time, then the flask system when re-weighed should mass out at 32.5 mg more than original. Our measured final weight of the flask was 26.0 mg greater than start. Therefore, one could say that for all losses involved, in 30 hours, the exchange of Ag for Al was about 80% effective. This gives me some decent confidence that we can mass-out and track the long term transmutation experiment described by Keith, with some decent confidence. if we make extra silver, we will know it. The remaining unknown for the test is the degree with which the reaction of the "seed" silver will be attenuated by the AlNO3 already added intentionally. OK last call for some starting parameters. I propose a seed amount of AgNO3 that would be adequate to salt the Al surface with some Ag over time, but not be enough to constitute >1mg of weight to the final system. Now, for the concentration of AlNO3 to start with... Keith, any vague notes or recollections from your end? Was your old colleague starting with something pretty strong, or just a whiff? nr The Holy Grail 'neath ancient Roslin waits. The blade and chalice guarding o'er Her gates. Adorned in the masters' loving art, She lies; She rests at last beneath the starry skies. From NewCandleAdmin at ipdiscover.com Sun Dec 14 14:48:34 2008 From: NewCandleAdmin at ipdiscover.com (Keith Nagel) Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 11:48:34 -0800 Subject: [NewCandle] Silver aluminum screening experiment In-Reply-To: <209338.13566.qm@web65415.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hey Nick, Sounds good so far, although I am still a bit fuzzy about how you are doing the mass measurement ( I need to reread your post and think about it some more ). As you surmise, as the reaction progresses the ratio of Al to Ag in the solution varies, the latter ( as aluminum nitrate ) growing while the former decreases. The amount of aluminum nitrate in the original provided solution was huge, about 15 percent of the total solution. The silver in solution was small, .05% or less. Hence the large time scales for the displacement reaction. Typical reaction times were on the order of 1 year. If there is any magic here, it is in that long tail at dilute silver concentrations. Here's an additional thought. As the displacement reaction occurs, H2 is generated and will escape the vessel. Beware of that if you are measuring overall mass of the solution. It isn't noticeable at these low rates, but you will see a decrease in the overall mass as the reaction progresses due to loss of H2. Needless to say, I'm looking forward to the micrograph of the aluminum. Those silver dendrites are incredibly beautiful. K. -----Original Message----- From: newcandle-bounces at ipdiscover.com [mailto:newcandle-bounces at ipdiscover.com]On Behalf Of Nick Reiter Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 10:34 AM To: New energy for the new world. Subject: [NewCandle] Silver aluminum screening experiment Hi Keith and all, As I reported a couple of days ago, I had a small piece of Keith's aluminum alloy strip in a volumetric flask undergoing the Ag-Al exchange reaction, as a precursor or screening experiment. The objective here was three-fold: 1. Get an idea of the rate of reaction with Al of that particular alloy, at room temperature. 2. Get an idea of the effectiveness of the ionic exchange. 3. Get an idea about how effective the overall protocol was... if a piece of aluminum undergoing some very slow transmutation anomaly produces extra silver, how confident can we be in our protocol to observe this clearly, if it would occur. The growth of silver dendrites in the weak AgNO3:H2O solution on Keith's metal occured. In 24 hours, it appeared to the eye that no further growth was occuring. At T+30 hours, the liquor from the flask was decanted, the metal and dendritic silver was gently irrigated as a rinse, drained out again, and the system was dried on a hotplate at 120C. When cool, I re-weighed the flask system. By calculation, there should have been 43.4 milligrams of Ag available for exchange, and thus dendritic deposition. This equalled 4.02336E-4 moles of silver. If we consider the exchange of Ag for Al, then the weight of Al placed into solution (and decanted off) should have been 10.9 mg. Thus, if the exchange was 100% effective in 30 hours of time, then the flask system when re-weighed should mass out at 32.5 mg more than original. Our measured final weight of the flask was 26.0 mg greater than start. Therefore, one could say that for all losses involved, in 30 hours, the exchange of Ag for Al was about 80% effective. This gives me some decent confidence that we can mass-out and track the long term transmutation experiment described by Keith, with some decent confidence. if we make extra silver, we will know it. The remaining unknown for the test is the degree with which the reaction of the "seed" silver will be attenuated by the AlNO3 already added intentionally. OK last call for some starting parameters. I propose a seed amount of AgNO3 that would be adequate to salt the Al surface with some Ag over time, but not be enough to constitute >1mg of weight to the final system. Now, for the concentration of AlNO3 to start with... Keith, any vague notes or recollections from your end? Was your old colleague starting with something pretty strong, or just a whiff? nr The Holy Grail 'neath ancient Roslin waits. The blade and chalice guarding o'er Her gates. Adorned in the masters' loving art, She lies; She rests at last beneath the starry skies. _______________________________________________ NewCandle mailing list NewCandle at ipdiscover.com http://ipdiscover.com/mailman/listinfo/newcandle_ipdiscover.com From avalonbiker at yahoo.com Sun Dec 14 14:42:29 2008 From: avalonbiker at yahoo.com (Nick Reiter) Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 11:42:29 -0800 (PST) Subject: [NewCandle] Silver aluminum screening experiment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <45539.50991.qm@web65406.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Hi Keith, Such photos as I got are on my camera at work - I will upload and send a couple your way next week. They are not microscope photos, sadly, but decent (maybe 5 or 6 cm distance) closeups. I am going to try to get some of the silver onto an SEM stub and get some close ups that way. Rinsing and drying, even gently, takes away the foliated pretty character. Another thing I noticed was that even with etching of the Al surface before putting it in the flask, the silver dendrites began at only a comparative few distinct nucleation sites. Maybe 8 or 10 on the piece. By chance? Or maybe micro-gouges where the native oxide was cracked a bit. Thanks for clarifying the AlNO3 content. n --- Keith Nagel wrote: > Hey Nick, > > Sounds good so far, although I am still a bit fuzzy > about > how you are doing the mass measurement ( I need to > reread your post and think about it some more ). > > As you surmise, as the reaction progresses the ratio > of Al to Ag in the solution varies, the latter ( as > aluminum nitrate ) growing while the former > decreases. > > The amount of aluminum nitrate in the original > provided > solution was huge, about 15 percent of the total > solution. > The silver in solution was small, .05% or less. > Hence the > large time scales for the displacement reaction. > Typical > reaction times were on the order of 1 year. If there > is any magic here, it is in that long tail at dilute > silver > concentrations. > > Here's an additional thought. As the displacement > reaction > occurs, H2 is generated and will escape the vessel. > Beware > of that if you are measuring overall mass of the > solution. > It isn't noticeable at these low rates, but you will > see a decrease in the overall mass as the reaction > progresses > due to loss of H2. > > Needless to say, I'm looking forward to the > micrograph of the > aluminum. Those silver dendrites are incredibly > beautiful. > > K. > > -----Original Message----- > From: newcandle-bounces at ipdiscover.com > [mailto:newcandle-bounces at ipdiscover.com]On Behalf > Of Nick Reiter > Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 10:34 AM > To: New energy for the new world. > Subject: [NewCandle] Silver aluminum screening > experiment > > > Hi Keith and all, > > As I reported a couple of days ago, I had a small > piece of Keith's aluminum alloy strip in a > volumetric > flask undergoing the Ag-Al exchange reaction, as a > precursor or screening experiment. The objective > here > was three-fold: > > 1. Get an idea of the rate of reaction with Al of > that particular alloy, at room temperature. > > 2. Get an idea of the effectiveness of the ionic > exchange. > > 3. Get an idea about how effective the overall > protocol was... if a piece of aluminum undergoing > some > very slow transmutation anomaly produces extra > silver, > how confident can we be in our protocol to observe > this clearly, if it would occur. > > The growth of silver dendrites in the weak AgNO3:H2O > solution on Keith's metal occured. In 24 hours, it > appeared to the eye that no further growth was > occuring. At T+30 hours, the liquor from the flask > was decanted, the metal and dendritic silver was > gently irrigated as a rinse, drained out again, and > the system was dried on a hotplate at 120C. When > cool, I re-weighed the flask system. > > By calculation, there should have been 43.4 > milligrams > of Ag available for exchange, and thus dendritic > deposition. This equalled 4.02336E-4 moles of > silver. > If we consider the exchange of Ag for Al, then the > weight of Al placed into solution (and decanted off) > should have been 10.9 mg. Thus, if the exchange was > 100% effective in 30 hours of time, then the flask > system when re-weighed should mass out at 32.5 mg > more > than original. > > Our measured final weight of the flask was 26.0 mg > greater than start. Therefore, one could say that > for > all losses involved, in 30 hours, the exchange of Ag > for Al was about 80% effective. > > This gives me some decent confidence that we can > mass-out and track the long term transmutation > experiment described by Keith, with some decent > confidence. if we make extra silver, we will know > it. > The remaining unknown for the test is the degree > with > which the reaction of the "seed" silver will be > attenuated by the AlNO3 already added intentionally. > > OK last call for some starting parameters. I > propose > a seed amount of AgNO3 that would be adequate to > salt > the Al surface with some Ag over time, but not be > enough to constitute >1mg of weight to the final > system. > > Now, for the concentration of AlNO3 to start with... > Keith, any vague notes or recollections from your > end? > Was your old colleague starting with something > pretty > strong, or just a whiff? > > nr > > The Holy Grail 'neath ancient Roslin waits. > The blade and chalice guarding o'er Her gates. > Adorned in the masters' loving art, She lies; > She rests at last beneath the starry skies. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NewCandle mailing list > NewCandle at ipdiscover.com > http://ipdiscover.com/mailman/listinfo/newcandle_ipdiscover.com > > _______________________________________________ > NewCandle mailing list > NewCandle at ipdiscover.com > http://ipdiscover.com/mailman/listinfo/newcandle_ipdiscover.com > The Holy Grail 'neath ancient Roslin waits. The blade and chalice guarding o'er Her gates. Adorned in the masters' loving art, She lies; She rests at last beneath the starry skies. From avalonbiker at yahoo.com Mon Dec 15 19:02:45 2008 From: avalonbiker at yahoo.com (Nick Reiter) Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 16:02:45 -0800 (PST) Subject: [NewCandle] Silver aluminum screening experiment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <65432.32293.qm@web65411.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Hi Keith and all, Got some good dendrite pics today. Amazing, the infolded fractal landscapes that form in silver realms:) I tend to think that some of the growth betrays subtle alloying from other constituents of the aluminum. There will be the delightful heavy structural cubism of the silver growth (at a micron level!) but then this will break suddenly into a fan-like doily of nested fractal triangles and voids. Wondrous. The dendrites probably can never look as enticing under the SEM as they do waving like trees in the liquid medium of their birth - alas. Photos coming your way in a little while, Keith. nr The Holy Grail 'neath ancient Roslin waits. The blade and chalice guarding o'er Her gates. Adorned in the masters' loving art, She lies; She rests at last beneath the starry skies. From drstiffler at embarqmail.com Sat Dec 20 16:22:07 2008 From: drstiffler at embarqmail.com (Dr Stiffler) Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 15:22:07 -0600 Subject: [NewCandle] Alive and Well Message-ID: <494D61FF.6060509@embarqmail.com> I will be back on 1/11/09 and will be able to respond to the questions, but SEC and ESEC are alive and well. New computer/programmable test equipment and a Valhalla 2010 have allowed for some stable measurements. My best so far is a gain of 10. The simple ESEC(1) does 200% without problem and (Yes) has been confirmed, but the world is a crazy place. Those I worked with to confirm the work have lost their voice and fingers frozen :-) My view is I am guilty until proven innocent and the judges are biased........ Look at a new video and when you do consider the raw data is captured and is confirmed via Excel so there is no bias in my software. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vd4h6oVtGj4 -- ************************************************************************ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This e-mail and any attachment are confidential and may be privileged or otherwise protected from disclosure. It is solely intended for the person(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient, then reading, use, disclosure, copying or distribution of all or parts of this e-mail or associated attachments is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately by replying to this message and delete this e-mail and any attachments permanently from your system. NON-DISCLOSURE AGREEMENT All parties under a non-disclosure agreement with Dr. Ronald Stiffler and/or Stiffler Scientific are hereby notified that the contents in this e-mail and any attachments hereto are covered under one or more non-disclosure agreements and restrictions as set forth therein. ************************************************************************ From hheffner at mtaonline.net Sat Dec 20 16:44:11 2008 From: hheffner at mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner) Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 12:44:11 -0900 Subject: [NewCandle] Alive and Well In-Reply-To: <494D61FF.6060509@embarqmail.com> References: <494D61FF.6060509@embarqmail.com> Message-ID: On Dec 20, 2008, at 12:22 PM, Dr Stiffler wrote: > > ********************************************************************** > ** > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE > This e-mail and any attachment are confidential and may be privileged > or otherwise protected from disclosure. It is solely intended for the > person(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient, then > reading, use, disclosure, copying or distribution of all or parts of > this e-mail or associated attachments is strictly prohibited. If you > are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately > by replying to this message and delete this e-mail and any attachments > permanently from your system. > > NON-DISCLOSURE AGREEMENT > All parties under a non-disclosure agreement with Dr. Ronald Stiffler > and/or Stiffler Scientific are hereby notified that the contents in > this e-mail and any attachments hereto are covered under one or more > non-disclosure agreements and restrictions as set forth therein. > ********************************************************************** > ** > > > _______________________________________________ > NewCandle mailing list > NewCandle at ipdiscover.com > http://ipdiscover.com/mailman/listinfo/newcandle_ipdiscover.com "Please be advised that the content of any correspondence to me, Horace Heffner, is placed into public domain unless otherwise specified by prior written agreement. I can be contacted at: hheffner at mtaonline.net. However, by sending unsolicited information to this address, the sender agrees to place it in public domian and to make it available for immediate posting to public news forums." Best regards, Horace Heffner http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/ From NewCandleAdmin at ipdiscover.com Sat Dec 20 19:52:01 2008 From: NewCandleAdmin at ipdiscover.com (Keith Nagel) Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 16:52:01 -0800 Subject: [NewCandle] Silver dendrite studies Message-ID: Hi All, Nick sent me those micrographs of the silver dendrites last week and I had a chance today to prepare some notes about my studies with silver along with Nick's results. Here they are. http://www.kpnconsulting.com/Research12.htm It is remarkable to me how full of life the metal is. One can begin to appreciate how organic life is possible with just some simple elements and energy. K. From NewCandleAdmin at ipdiscover.com Sun Dec 21 13:52:09 2008 From: NewCandleAdmin at ipdiscover.com (Keith Nagel) Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 10:52:09 -0800 Subject: [NewCandle] Silver aluminum screening experiment In-Reply-To: <65432.32293.qm@web65411.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hey Nick, You write: >I tend to think that some of the growth >betrays subtle alloying from other constituents of the >aluminum. At first I thought perhaps the aluminum was codepositing with the silver, but I have come to find over the years that it is next to impossible to get aluminum to plate out of an aqueous solution, even as an alloy with other metals ( especially so, as that was what I was trying to do ). Of course, one could certainly experiment with this by using copper rather than aluminum as the displacing metal, or doping with copper nitrate. >Another thing I noticed was that even with etching of >the Al surface before putting it in the flask, the >silver dendrites began at only a comparative few >distinct nucleation sites. Maybe 8 or 10 on the >piece. By chance? Or maybe micro-gouges where the >native oxide was cracked a bit. Yes. Once the process starts, the silver becomes the cathode and reduction occurs there at the expense of aluminum dissolution elsewhere. You can see from my concentration study that it is possible to prevent that from happening by making the solution so dense that all the aluminum surface gets covered by silver. Then, no growth. Etching with aluminum will create more possible growth sites. If you can electropolish a piece of aluminum to get a truly flat and uniform surface, that would be more instructive. Perhaps you should image a piece of alumninum ( etched or polished ) after 1 hour of exposure to the silver solution and look for those nascent growth sites. This might give us more insight into that important initial process. I'm pleased you are finding this system as beautiful to work with as I have. I like carbon, and I wouldn't be here without it, but I assert it is not the only game in town. I consider this silver displacement system to be a form of artificial life. Imagine my delight when I discovered that growth on one of my solid plates was stimulated by sunlight and grew towards the light! Not really surprising as silver is photosensitive, but at what point do you stop talking about these things as dumb hunks of metal and start talking about them as plants? K. From avalonbiker at yahoo.com Mon Dec 22 21:16:39 2008 From: avalonbiker at yahoo.com (Nick Reiter) Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 18:16:39 -0800 (PST) Subject: [NewCandle] Silver aluminum screening experiment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <82380.26151.qm@web65412.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Hi Keith, Ah, phototropism in the silver fractal-biologic system! I never paused to consider that, but it makes perfect sense! As I was examining the dendrites, particularly the delicate doily break-out growths, I found myself enraptured with the potential for vacuum mode interaction and Casimir forces playing roles in the forms and growth. Among so much else, it could be another complex nano-system sutable for continuing the search for human psi ala micro-PK! By the way, I started a long term aluminum nitrate system last week... 20ml of distilled H2O in a soda lime glass test tube. ~8 grams of Al(NO3)3 to provide about 15% by wt. Al one half of the provided aluminum strip, polished with commercial aluminum polish, then rinsed with MeOH and dried; .61 grams weight after polishing. ~2 drops of diluted AgNO3:H2O enough to provide ~1mg of Ag into the system as seeding. After about 48 hours, a dull greyish coating was beginning to form on the Al, with very slight formation of small bubbles on the Al surface. I set the tube up on a shelf, out of any direct light. Now we wait. I am going to set up an identical tube using some well water, with a little added D2O as my vanity improvement. n > work with as I have. I like carbon, and I wouldn't > be here without it, but I assert it is not the only > game in town. I consider this silver displacement > system to be a form > of artificial life. Imagine my delight when I > discovered > that growth on one of my solid plates was stimulated > by sunlight and grew towards the light! Not really > surprising as silver is photosensitive, but at what > point do you stop talking about these things as dumb > hunks of metal and start talking about them as > plants? The Holy Grail 'neath ancient Roslin waits. The blade and chalice guarding o'er Her gates. Adorned in the masters' loving art, She lies; She rests at last beneath the starry skies. From avalonbiker at yahoo.com Mon Dec 22 21:39:46 2008 From: avalonbiker at yahoo.com (Nick Reiter) Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 18:39:46 -0800 (PST) Subject: [NewCandle] odd flotsam and jetsom In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <387470.11538.qm@web65403.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Hi all, Segue into a related topic (aluminum, transmutation, etc) I recently sampled some aluminum foil surfaces from the "Pixie 7" hydrolysis bucket run - this one using LiCl + 10ml/4liter D2O, along with the standard 600 ft2 roll area of Al foil. Fairly unexciting. Hints of some boron content I can't really assay from system inputs, similar to what cropped up in NaCl and KCl runs in the past. But unlike NaCl and KCl salt reaction buckets, no tantalizing hints of other elements such as Ce, Si, "too much" Fe, or F. However darned if I haven't found an oddity that I cannot find an accounting for in my EDS literature... at first I thought it was an anomaly occuring after the rolled foil hydrolysis with KCl as a salt. But no, its not. I had tried looking at some grains of KCl with the EDS, to see if any transmutational species would show up post-hydrolysis. The cubic gummy crystals showed K and Cl of course, and nothing much else of metallic note. However, there appeared, at 10, 20, and 30kV, and at various spot sizes as well, a peculiar and apparently "real" spectral peak at .88 keV Thing is, the X-ray library on-board the EDS says the only full match-up is...neon...Ne. Could I have been generating Neon by some exotic process? I then loaded up some virgin KCl, from my source bottle. Same line. No idea. Its an artifact I guess, but a very queer one I really can't explain. yet. Now as an added attraction, I found also that when I took the SEM stub back out of the scope, the raster of the electron beam on the KCl crystal produced a region where the crystal turned from clear to an intense amethyst purple. Electron beam induced color centers? I'd be interested to know if any of the crystallographers out there have run into this. I got a couple of optical microscope photos that show the effect very beautifully. Will send them along at some point over the upcoming time holiday weekend. Always wonder to be had, any old season! nr The Holy Grail 'neath ancient Roslin waits. The blade and chalice guarding o'er Her gates. Adorned in the masters' loving art, She lies; She rests at last beneath the starry skies. From NewCandleAdmin at ipdiscover.com Wed Dec 24 15:04:47 2008 From: NewCandleAdmin at ipdiscover.com (Keith Nagel) Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 12:04:47 -0800 Subject: [NewCandle] Silver aluminum screening experiment In-Reply-To: <82380.26151.qm@web65412.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hey Nick, I should post another page with an experiment to highlight the phototropic effect; I wish I had a nice microscope with a camera adapter so I could grow and photograph some of the forms of dendrites in-situ. As you see, they are very delicate, and attempting to remove and image them from their growing medium destroys much of the macro structure. The sun just does not shine here in the winter like on the East Coast, so I'll try it with an ordinary light bulb. Should work just as well. I could also try it with a laser, which should create a dendrite right at the spot of illumination. Perhaps that might be more compelling? Although I don't think such things are affected by thought, I couldn't help but think of this oddity from your comments about PSI http://chemistry.about.com/od/weirdscience/a/fitzroy.htm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Storm_glass Russian occult science types have claimed that this system is sensitive to thought. I remain skeptical. It's probably sensitive to just about everything else though, so why not? (grin) The storm glass led me to another invention, perhaps the most eccentric and quirky machine created by man. Witness the awe and mystery of the tempest prognosticator. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempest_Prognosticator OK, back to the subject at hand... I think the D2O is a great idea, and something which I had always wanted to do with this system. I wonder what the cheapest source of quantities of D2O is these days? I know of only one hobby sources, Lazar, but he's still kind of pricy for the quantities needed to do serious wet chemical research. What are the CF researchers using? K. -----Original Message----- From: newcandle-bounces at ipdiscover.com [mailto:newcandle-bounces at ipdiscover.com]On Behalf Of Nick Reiter Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 6:17 PM To: New energy for the new world. Subject: Re: [NewCandle] Silver aluminum screening experiment Hi Keith, Ah, phototropism in the silver fractal-biologic system! I never paused to consider that, but it makes perfect sense! As I was examining the dendrites, particularly the delicate doily break-out growths, I found myself enraptured with the potential for vacuum mode interaction and Casimir forces playing roles in the forms and growth. Among so much else, it could be another complex nano-system sutable for continuing the search for human psi ala micro-PK! By the way, I started a long term aluminum nitrate system last week... 20ml of distilled H2O in a soda lime glass test tube. ~8 grams of Al(NO3)3 to provide about 15% by wt. Al one half of the provided aluminum strip, polished with commercial aluminum polish, then rinsed with MeOH and dried; .61 grams weight after polishing. ~2 drops of diluted AgNO3:H2O enough to provide ~1mg of Ag into the system as seeding. After about 48 hours, a dull greyish coating was beginning to form on the Al, with very slight formation of small bubbles on the Al surface. I set the tube up on a shelf, out of any direct light. Now we wait. I am going to set up an identical tube using some well water, with a little added D2O as my vanity improvement. n > work with as I have. I like carbon, and I wouldn't > be here without it, but I assert it is not the only > game in town. I consider this silver displacement > system to be a form > of artificial life. Imagine my delight when I > discovered > that growth on one of my solid plates was stimulated > by sunlight and grew towards the light! Not really > surprising as silver is photosensitive, but at what > point do you stop talking about these things as dumb > hunks of metal and start talking about them as > plants? The Holy Grail 'neath ancient Roslin waits. The blade and chalice guarding o'er Her gates. Adorned in the masters' loving art, She lies; She rests at last beneath the starry skies. _______________________________________________ NewCandle mailing list NewCandle at ipdiscover.com http://ipdiscover.com/mailman/listinfo/newcandle_ipdiscover.com From avalonbiker at yahoo.com Wed Dec 24 15:07:47 2008 From: avalonbiker at yahoo.com (Nick Reiter) Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 12:07:47 -0800 (PST) Subject: [NewCandle] Mystical Leeches say ho ho ho In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <768665.63014.qm@web65412.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Good heavens... in all my days... leech powered storm prognostication... On that note, Holiday wishes to all, n > The storm glass led me to another invention, perhaps > the most > eccentric and quirky machine created by man. Witness > the awe > and mystery of the tempest prognosticator. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempest_Prognosticator > The Holy Grail 'neath ancient Roslin waits. The blade and chalice guarding o'er Her gates. Adorned in the masters' loving art, She lies; She rests at last beneath the starry skies. From avalonbiker at yahoo.com Wed Dec 24 15:16:33 2008 From: avalonbiker at yahoo.com (Nick Reiter) Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 12:16:33 -0800 (PST) Subject: [NewCandle] superbad neon In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <400862.44788.qm@web65409.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Oh, one last oddity to share before I focus on the ho ho ho for a while... re: the curious .88keV "neon" X-ray line seen by EDS in KCl crystals from the hydrolysis buckets... When I described this to Sam Faile, he replied that some years ago, an odd anecdote came his way in the 1980s from a colleague involved in HeNe laser tube design, that might be germane. Apparently, when test laser tubes were disected for analysis, occasionally the diamond saw blades used would hit a hard pocket of "something" that would smash the diamonds. Nobody every explained what the "something" was, however one intrepid colleague of said colleague did some off-hours analysis, and claimed that what the saw blade was hitting was literally a neon silicate - just inside the resonator tube wall surface, neon was bonding with the quartz as it de-vitrified, forming a super material of incredible hardness. Tales from the Brewster Window apparently. nr The Holy Grail 'neath ancient Roslin waits. The blade and chalice guarding o'er Her gates. Adorned in the masters' loving art, She lies; She rests at last beneath the starry skies. From hheffner at mtaonline.net Sat Dec 27 20:14:32 2008 From: hheffner at mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner) Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 16:14:32 -0900 Subject: [NewCandle] New prospective matrix material for high temp LENR Message-ID: Here is a whole new twist on dendrites (for me anyway) - dendrites *in* glass. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/12/081219172129.htm http://tinyurl.com/9a648r Excess energy might be available from various hydrogen-to-lattice reactions, including Ti + p and Ti+ D. Given Be can be a major ingredient, this stuff is a prime candidate for LENR excess heat. It would be interesting to test this material in powdered and thin film form, though high tunneling rates probably have to be maintained via thermal gradients and pressure gradients, which are easier to maintain in bulk volumes. Related PhD thesis: "Designing Bulk Metallic Glass Matrix Composites with High Toughness and Tensile Ductility" by Douglas Clayton Hofmann http://etd.caltech.edu/etd/available/etd-09102008-101837/unrestricted/ Hofmann_PhD.pdf http://tinyurl.com/9m5nw5 From abstract at: http://etd.caltech.edu/etd/available/etd-09102008-101837/ "Metallic glasses have been the subject of intense scientific study since the 1960s, owing to their unique properties such as high strength, large elastic limit, high hardness, and amorphous microstructure. However, bulk metallic glasses have not been used in the high strength structural applications for which they have so much potential, owing to a highly localized failure mechanism that results in catastrophic failure during unconfined loading. In this thesis, bulk metallic glass matrix composites are designed with the combined benefits of high yield strengths and tensile ductility. This milestone is achieved by first investigating the length scale of the highly localized deformation, known as shear bands, that governs fracture in all metallic glasses. Under unconfined loading, a shear band grows to a certain length that is dependent on the fracture toughness of the glass before a crack nucleates and fracture occurs. Increasing the fracture toughness and ductility involves adding microstructural stabilization techniques that prevent shear bands from lengthening and promotes formation of multiple shear bands. To accomplish this, we develop in-situ formed bulk metallic glass matrix- composites with soft crystalline dendrites whose size and distribution are controlled through a novel semi-solid processing technique. The new alloys have a dramatically increased room- temperature ductility and a fracture toughness that appears to be similar to the toughest steels. Owing to their low modulus, the composites are therefore among the toughest known materials, a claim that has recently been confirmed independently by a fracture mechanics group. We extend our toughening strategy to a titanium- vanadium-based glass-dendrite composite system with density as low as 4.97 g/cm[...]. The new low-density composites rival the mechanical properties of the best structural crystalline Ti alloys. We demonstrate new processing techniques available in the highly toughened composites: room temperature cold rolling, work hardening, and thermoplastic forming. This thesis is a proven road map for developing metallic glass composites into real structural engineering materials." Best regards, Horace Heffner http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/ From NewCandleAdmin at ipdiscover.com Sun Dec 28 14:06:34 2008 From: NewCandleAdmin at ipdiscover.com (Keith Nagel) Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 11:06:34 -0800 Subject: [NewCandle] New prospective matrix material for high temp LENR In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Indeed. I too have wondered whether cermet materials could be used for LENR type reactions, or just as novel electrodes for hydrogen generation. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cermet I am not too up on the vanguard of materials science to know where the thesis you linked fits in with the field; I gathered from a quick scan of the paper that the ductility of the alloy was the novelty but there could be more. That kind of dendritic growth is common in alloys in general; I've been reading much on ferromagnetic alloys and SEM photos often show the familiar frond shaped growths. But perhaps a cermet with the metal component forming dendrites is new??? Does that account for the ductility? K. -----Original Message----- From: newcandle-bounces at ipdiscover.com [mailto:newcandle-bounces at ipdiscover.com]On Behalf Of Horace Heffner Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 5:15 PM To: New energy for the new world. Subject: [NewCandle] New prospective matrix material for high temp LENR Here is a whole new twist on dendrites (for me anyway) - dendrites *in* glass. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/12/081219172129.htm http://tinyurl.com/9a648r Excess energy might be available from various hydrogen-to-lattice reactions, including Ti + p and Ti+ D. Given Be can be a major ingredient, this stuff is a prime candidate for LENR excess heat. It would be interesting to test this material in powdered and thin film form, though high tunneling rates probably have to be maintained via thermal gradients and pressure gradients, which are easier to maintain in bulk volumes. Related PhD thesis: "Designing Bulk Metallic Glass Matrix Composites with High Toughness and Tensile Ductility" by Douglas Clayton Hofmann http://etd.caltech.edu/etd/available/etd-09102008-101837/unrestricted/ Hofmann_PhD.pdf http://tinyurl.com/9m5nw5 From abstract at: http://etd.caltech.edu/etd/available/etd-09102008-101837/ "Metallic glasses have been the subject of intense scientific study since the 1960s, owing to their unique properties such as high strength, large elastic limit, high hardness, and amorphous microstructure. However, bulk metallic glasses have not been used in the high strength structural applications for which they have so much potential, owing to a highly localized failure mechanism that results in catastrophic failure during unconfined loading. In this thesis, bulk metallic glass matrix composites are designed with the combined benefits of high yield strengths and tensile ductility. This milestone is achieved by first investigating the length scale of the highly localized deformation, known as shear bands, that governs fracture in all metallic glasses. Under unconfined loading, a shear band grows to a certain length that is dependent on the fracture toughness of the glass before a crack nucleates and fracture occurs. Increasing the fracture toughness and ductility involves adding microstructural stabilization techniques that prevent shear bands from lengthening and promotes formation of multiple shear bands. To accomplish this, we develop in-situ formed bulk metallic glass matrix- composites with soft crystalline dendrites whose size and distribution are controlled through a novel semi-solid processing technique. The new alloys have a dramatically increased room- temperature ductility and a fracture toughness that appears to be similar to the toughest steels. Owing to their low modulus, the composites are therefore among the toughest known materials, a claim that has recently been confirmed independently by a fracture mechanics group. We extend our toughening strategy to a titanium- vanadium-based glass-dendrite composite system with density as low as 4.97 g/cm[...]. The new low-density composites rival the mechanical properties of the best structural crystalline Ti alloys. We demonstrate new processing techniques available in the highly toughened composites: room temperature cold rolling, work hardening, and thermoplastic forming. This thesis is a proven road map for developing metallic glass composites into real structural engineering materials." Best regards, Horace Heffner http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/ _______________________________________________ NewCandle mailing list NewCandle at ipdiscover.com http://ipdiscover.com/mailman/listinfo/newcandle_ipdiscover.com From hheffner at mtaonline.net Sun Dec 28 14:10:17 2008 From: hheffner at mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner) Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 10:10:17 -0900 Subject: [NewCandle] New prospective matrix material for high temp LENR In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3A152A53-5BD7-4F84-A103-7B8DAAB98086@mtaonline.net> On Dec 28, 2008, at 10:06 AM, Keith Nagel wrote: > Indeed. I too have wondered whether cermet materials could > be used for LENR type reactions, or just as novel electrodes > for hydrogen generation. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cermet > > I am not too up on the vanguard of materials science to know where > the thesis you linked fits in with the field; I gathered from a > quick scan of the paper that the ductility of the alloy was the > novelty but there could be more. That kind of dendritic growth > is common in alloys in general; I've been reading much on > ferromagnetic > alloys and SEM photos often show the familiar frond shaped growths. > But perhaps a cermet with the metal component forming dendrites > is new??? Does that account for the ductility? > > K. "The new alloys have a dramatically increased room-temperature ductility and a fracture toughness that appears to be similar to the toughest steels. Owing to their low modulus, the composites are therefore among the toughest known materials, a claim that has recently been confirmed independently by a fracture mechanics group." "...density as low as 4.97 g/cm3. The new low-density composites rival the mechanical properties of the best structural crystalline Ti alloys. We demonstrate new processing techniques available in the highly toughened composites: room temperature cold rolling, work hardening, and thermoplastic forming." This stuff is ideal for the mass production of small airframes, say for pilotless vehicles. Since fracture under high loading has long been noted as an impediment to CF, it seems logical to test the stuff. Handily, it also contains lighter than Fe elements, meaning energy is potentially available from heavy LENR as well as hydrogen fusion. Best regards, Horace Heffner http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/ From hheffner at mtaonline.net Sun Dec 28 15:46:44 2008 From: hheffner at mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner) Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 11:46:44 -0900 Subject: [NewCandle] New prospective matrix material for high temp LENR In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Dec 28, 2008, at 10:06 AM, Keith Nagel wrote: > Indeed. I too have wondered whether cermet materials could > be used for LENR type reactions, or just as novel electrodes > for hydrogen generation. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cermet > > I am not too up on the vanguard of materials science to know where > the thesis you linked fits in with the field; I gathered from a > quick scan of the paper that the ductility of the alloy was the > novelty but there could be more. That kind of dendritic growth > is common in alloys in general; I've been reading much on > ferromagnetic > alloys and SEM photos often show the familiar frond shaped growths. > But perhaps a cermet with the metal component forming dendrites > is new??? Does that account for the ductility? > > K. The advancement is in composite metallic glasses, not cermets. From Wiki: "A cermet is a composite material composed of ceramic (cer) and metallic (met) materials. A cermet is ideally designed to have the optimal properties of both a ceramic, such as high temperature resistance and hardness, and those of a metal, such as the ability to undergo plastic deformation. The metal is used as a binder for an oxide, boride, carbide, or alumina. Generally, the metallic elements used are nickel, molybdenum, and cobalt. Depending on the physical structure of the material, cermets can also be metal matrix composites, but cermets are usually less than 20% metal by volume." My impression, from the various examples given, is that cermets have high resistance, and thus may not make good cathodes. "The metal is used as a binder for an oxide, boride, carbide, or alumina." They are not metallic glasses and don't appear to be amenable to cold rolling and thermoplastic forming. Their main application appears to be high temperature environments. The glasses developed act more like metals than ceramics, and a low cost thermoformable glass replacement for metallic titanium is even available. Starting on page 121: "6.2 Background on Nanostructure-Dendrite Composites Recently, titanium-based nanostructure-dendrite composites have been reported which are said to exhibit increased toughness over bulk metallic glasses (BMGs) and other nanostructured materials (see [1]). This work has spawned an entirely new field of nanoeutectic-oriented metallurgy, with dozens of publications touting the benefits of such materials over BMGs (see, for instance, [2?14]). However, upon further investigation of this new field, we note that uniaxial compression tests are typically the only mechanical tests used to characterize the perceived toughness and enhanced plasticity of the nanostructured composites. The geometry of the compression test, where closing stresses and friction arrest slip, has resulted in the overstatement of toughness in these new materials. It appears that the nanostructure-dendrite composites are very similar to BMG composites, but with a eutectic matrix that failed to form a glass during rapid cooling. The crystallized matrix, or nanostructured eutectic as it is often called, is typically comprised of brittle [***** note the prior word! ****] intermetallics, and fails with no apparent plasticity in bending or tension tests. When nanostructure-dendrite composites are loaded in an unconfined manner, as with the uniaxial tension test, cracks move unimpeded through the brittle matrix and global ductility is absent. In contrast, if the matrix is frozen as a glass, the length scale of the deformation is larger, allowing microstructural stabilization mechanisms to become possible. In the current work, we demonstrate several new titanium-based glass-dendrite composites, all of which exhibit at least 5 percent tensile ductility, low cost, and densities comparable to high-performance crystalline titanium alloys (4.97?5.15 g/cm3). We observe a remarkable similarity in mechanical properties (such as tensile ductility, yield strength, and fracture toughness) between the new glassy-composites and high-strength crystalline titanium alloys (such as Ti-6Al-4V) ? all with a significantly lower Young?s modulus. The current work demonstrates that titanium-based BMG composites can be competitive with crystalline titanium alloys for structural applications where high strength and toughness are a necessity." Page 123: "In the case where the glass matrix does not vitrify into a bulk glass, a brittle nanostructure-dendrite composite forms, accompanied by a large increase in G. Based on nearly two decades of research with BMGs, we note that a crystallized or partially crystallized metallic glass is always more brittle than a fully amorphous one." "While the glass-dendrite composites have been shown to exhibit up to ~ 13% tensile ductility [14], nanostructure-dendrite composites fail in an apparently brittle manner with no global ductility. Shear bands that form in the nanostructured eutectic matrix develop into catastrophic cracks at much shorter lengths than in BMGs, leading to failure on a continuous path through the matrix. The crystalline phases act as nucleation sites for shear bands, which typically form at lower stresses than in monolithic glasses. Despite claims of increased toughness and ductility in several publications on nanostructure-dendrite composites, tension tests are noticeably absent [1?14]. " With this background, now to more specifically answer your questions. The key to making high toughness composites with all the other required features is the creation of *soft* crystal dendrites, i.e. dendrites having a low shear modulus, lower than the glass in which they are imbedded. P 34: "The advancement that allowed in-situ alloys to exhibit tensile ductility while ex-situ alloys do not is the understanding that the inclusions need to be softer than the glass matrix [23]. This fundamental concept was experimentally demonstrated in 2001, with the alloy Zr56.2Ti13.8Nb5Cu6.9Ni5.6Be12.5 (LM2), but the concept was largely overlooked." Much of the rest of the work relates to how to form metallic glasses. The result is summed up on P. 14: "We have observed that the two most important criteria for bulk glass formation are deep eutectics and atomic size mismatch." P. 133: "The low processing temperatures of the composites allow for rapid prototyping of parts and a cost savings over crystalline titanium alloys. " Best regards, Horace Heffner http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/ From NewCandleAdmin at ipdiscover.com Mon Dec 29 14:24:58 2008 From: NewCandleAdmin at ipdiscover.com (Keith Nagel) Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 11:24:58 -0800 Subject: [NewCandle] New prospective matrix material for high temp LENR In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hey Horace, Thanks for taking the time to abstract some of the background info from the thesis; that was very helpful. Why I made the connection to the cermets was the use of zirconia in many of the compositions. As you say, typical cermet compositions have a metal component of at most 20% say, where with these compositions metal values are closer to 50%. Greater conductivity would surely result, making for a more efficient cathode ( I sort of had in mind using thin films of the cermet over a metal substrate to reduce conductivity losses ). This new material method described in your linked thesis certainly has some promise for LENR usage; the codeposition type of experiment I have conducted over the years were predicated on the belief that dendritic growth of the active metal on the cathode was important for creating an active LENR site. This is quite distinct from the approach of codeposition with boron and the like ( techniques long used in the metal plating industry ) to toughen the resulting active metal film and allow for greater hydrogen isotope loading. The latter approach being more appropriate to the F&P model of LENR. So having a bulk matrix of dendrites preformed in the cathode where the whole is structurally stable could be very beneficial. Getting the hydrogen _in_ there is another matter. Now if we could just get this guy to try making a palladium alloy... K. -----Original Message----- From: newcandle-bounces at ipdiscover.com [mailto:newcandle-bounces at ipdiscover.com]On Behalf Of Horace Heffner Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2008 12:47 PM To: New energy for the new world. Subject: Re: [NewCandle] New prospective matrix material for high temp LENR On Dec 28, 2008, at 10:06 AM, Keith Nagel wrote: > Indeed. I too have wondered whether cermet materials could > be used for LENR type reactions, or just as novel electrodes > for hydrogen generation. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cermet > > I am not too up on the vanguard of materials science to know where > the thesis you linked fits in with the field; I gathered from a > quick scan of the paper that the ductility of the alloy was the > novelty but there could be more. That kind of dendritic growth > is common in alloys in general; I've been reading much on > ferromagnetic > alloys and SEM photos often show the familiar frond shaped growths. > But perhaps a cermet with the metal component forming dendrites > is new??? Does that account for the ductility? > > K. The advancement is in composite metallic glasses, not cermets. From Wiki: "A cermet is a composite material composed of ceramic (cer) and metallic (met) materials. A cermet is ideally designed to have the optimal properties of both a ceramic, such as high temperature resistance and hardness, and those of a metal, such as the ability to undergo plastic deformation. The metal is used as a binder for an oxide, boride, carbide, or alumina. Generally, the metallic elements used are nickel, molybdenum, and cobalt. Depending on the physical structure of the material, cermets can also be metal matrix composites, but cermets are usually less than 20% metal by volume." My impression, from the various examples given, is that cermets have high resistance, and thus may not make good cathodes. "The metal is used as a binder for an oxide, boride, carbide, or alumina." They are not metallic glasses and don't appear to be amenable to cold rolling and thermoplastic forming. Their main application appears to be high temperature environments. The glasses developed act more like metals than ceramics, and a low cost thermoformable glass replacement for metallic titanium is even available. Starting on page 121: "6.2 Background on Nanostructure-Dendrite Composites Recently, titanium-based nanostructure-dendrite composites have been reported which are said to exhibit increased toughness over bulk metallic glasses (BMGs) and other nanostructured materials (see [1]). This work has spawned an entirely new field of nanoeutectic-oriented metallurgy, with dozens of publications touting the benefits of such materials over BMGs (see, for instance, [2?14]). However, upon further investigation of this new field, we note that uniaxial compression tests are typically the only mechanical tests used to characterize the perceived toughness and enhanced plasticity of the nanostructured composites. The geometry of the compression test, where closing stresses and friction arrest slip, has resulted in the overstatement of toughness in these new materials. It appears that the nanostructure-dendrite composites are very similar to BMG composites, but with a eutectic matrix that failed to form a glass during rapid cooling. The crystallized matrix, or nanostructured eutectic as it is often called, is typically comprised of brittle [***** note the prior word! ****] intermetallics, and fails with no apparent plasticity in bending or tension tests. When nanostructure-dendrite composites are loaded in an unconfined manner, as with the uniaxial tension test, cracks move unimpeded through the brittle matrix and global ductility is absent. In contrast, if the matrix is frozen as a glass, the length scale of the deformation is larger, allowing microstructural stabilization mechanisms to become possible. In the current work, we demonstrate several new titanium-based glass-dendrite composites, all of which exhibit at least 5 percent tensile ductility, low cost, and densities comparable to high-performance crystalline titanium alloys (4.97?5.15 g/cm3). We observe a remarkable similarity in mechanical properties (such as tensile ductility, yield strength, and fracture toughness) between the new glassy-composites and high-strength crystalline titanium alloys (such as Ti-6Al-4V) ? all with a significantly lower Young?s modulus. The current work demonstrates that titanium-based BMG composites can be competitive with crystalline titanium alloys for structural applications where high strength and toughness are a necessity." Page 123: "In the case where the glass matrix does not vitrify into a bulk glass, a brittle nanostructure-dendrite composite forms, accompanied by a large increase in G. Based on nearly two decades of research with BMGs, we note that a crystallized or partially crystallized metallic glass is always more brittle than a fully amorphous one." "While the glass-dendrite composites have been shown to exhibit up to ~ 13% tensile ductility [14], nanostructure-dendrite composites fail in an apparently brittle manner with no global ductility. Shear bands that form in the nanostructured eutectic matrix develop into catastrophic cracks at much shorter lengths than in BMGs, leading to failure on a continuous path through the matrix. The crystalline phases act as nucleation sites for shear bands, which typically form at lower stresses than in monolithic glasses. Despite claims of increased toughness and ductility in several publications on nanostructure-dendrite composites, tension tests are noticeably absent [1?14]. " With this background, now to more specifically answer your questions. The key to making high toughness composites with all the other required features is the creation of *soft* crystal dendrites, i.e. dendrites having a low shear modulus, lower than the glass in which they are imbedded. P 34: "The advancement that allowed in-situ alloys to exhibit tensile ductility while ex-situ alloys do not is the understanding that the inclusions need to be softer than the glass matrix [23]. This fundamental concept was experimentally demonstrated in 2001, with the alloy Zr56.2Ti13.8Nb5Cu6.9Ni5.6Be12.5 (LM2), but the concept was largely overlooked." Much of the rest of the work relates to how to form metallic glasses. The result is summed up on P. 14: "We have observed that the two most important criteria for bulk glass formation are deep eutectics and atomic size mismatch." P. 133: "The low processing temperatures of the composites allow for rapid prototyping of parts and a cost savings over crystalline titanium alloys. " Best regards, Horace Heffner http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/ _______________________________________________ NewCandle mailing list NewCandle at ipdiscover.com http://ipdiscover.com/mailman/listinfo/newcandle_ipdiscover.com From NewCandleAdmin at ipdiscover.com Tue Dec 30 12:28:11 2008 From: NewCandleAdmin at ipdiscover.com (Keith Nagel) Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 09:28:11 -0800 Subject: [NewCandle] Palladium based bulk metallic glass In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Horace, Boy, I must have been drinking too much eggnog. I see there is no oxygen at all in these new compositions, so they are pure metals as you were trying to point out to me. Sorry for the confusion. For what it is worth, I think one could obtain the dendritic structure just by heat treating a glassy alloy. The result would be a two phased alloy, with one phase being the dendrite and the other being the bulk matrix. Interestingly enough, one of the first glassy alloys was made with 77.5% palladium, 6% copper, and 16.5% silicon in '69. An improved material capable of being made in bulk was developed in the 80's, composed of 55% palladium, 22.5% lead, and 22.5% antimony. There's your base alloy for LENR type experiments. K. -----Original Message----- From: newcandle-bounces at ipdiscover.com [mailto:newcandle-bounces at ipdiscover.com]On Behalf Of Keith Nagel Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 11:25 AM To: New energy for the new world. Subject: Re: [NewCandle] New prospective matrix material for high temp LENR Hey Horace, Thanks for taking the time to abstract some of the background info from the thesis; that was very helpful. Why I made the connection to the cermets was the use of zirconia in many of the compositions. As you say, typical cermet compositions have a metal component of at most 20% say, where with these compositions metal values are closer to 50%. Greater conductivity would surely result, making for a more efficient cathode ( I sort of had in mind using thin films of the cermet over a metal substrate to reduce conductivity losses ). This new material method described in your linked thesis certainly has some promise for LENR usage; the codeposition type of experiment I have conducted over the years were predicated on the belief that dendritic growth of the active metal on the cathode was important for creating an active LENR site. This is quite distinct from the approach of codeposition with boron and the like ( techniques long used in the metal plating industry ) to toughen the resulting active metal film and allow for greater hydrogen isotope loading. The latter approach being more appropriate to the F&P model of LENR. So having a bulk matrix of dendrites preformed in the cathode where the whole is structurally stable could be very beneficial. Getting the hydrogen _in_ there is another matter. Now if we could just get this guy to try making a palladium alloy... K. -----Original Message----- From: newcandle-bounces at ipdiscover.com [mailto:newcandle-bounces at ipdiscover.com]On Behalf Of Horace Heffner Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2008 12:47 PM To: New energy for the new world. Subject: Re: [NewCandle] New prospective matrix material for high temp LENR On Dec 28, 2008, at 10:06 AM, Keith Nagel wrote: > Indeed. I too have wondered whether cermet materials could > be used for LENR type reactions, or just as novel electrodes > for hydrogen generation. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cermet > > I am not too up on the vanguard of materials science to know where > the thesis you linked fits in with the field; I gathered from a > quick scan of the paper that the ductility of the alloy was the > novelty but there could be more. That kind of dendritic growth > is common in alloys in general; I've been reading much on > ferromagnetic > alloys and SEM photos often show the familiar frond shaped growths. > But perhaps a cermet with the metal component forming dendrites > is new??? Does that account for the ductility? > > K. The advancement is in composite metallic glasses, not cermets. From Wiki: "A cermet is a composite material composed of ceramic (cer) and metallic (met) materials. A cermet is ideally designed to have the optimal properties of both a ceramic, such as high temperature resistance and hardness, and those of a metal, such as the ability to undergo plastic deformation. The metal is used as a binder for an oxide, boride, carbide, or alumina. Generally, the metallic elements used are nickel, molybdenum, and cobalt. Depending on the physical structure of the material, cermets can also be metal matrix composites, but cermets are usually less than 20% metal by volume." My impression, from the various examples given, is that cermets have high resistance, and thus may not make good cathodes. "The metal is used as a binder for an oxide, boride, carbide, or alumina." They are not metallic glasses and don't appear to be amenable to cold rolling and thermoplastic forming. Their main application appears to be high temperature environments. The glasses developed act more like metals than ceramics, and a low cost thermoformable glass replacement for metallic titanium is even available. Starting on page 121: "6.2 Background on Nanostructure-Dendrite Composites Recently, titanium-based nanostructure-dendrite composites have been reported which are said to exhibit increased toughness over bulk metallic glasses (BMGs) and other nanostructured materials (see [1]). This work has spawned an entirely new field of nanoeutectic-oriented metallurgy, with dozens of publications touting the benefits of such materials over BMGs (see, for instance, [2?14]). However, upon further investigation of this new field, we note that uniaxial compression tests are typically the only mechanical tests used to characterize the perceived toughness and enhanced plasticity of the nanostructured composites. The geometry of the compression test, where closing stresses and friction arrest slip, has resulted in the overstatement of toughness in these new materials. It appears that the nanostructure-dendrite composites are very similar to BMG composites, but with a eutectic matrix that failed to form a glass during rapid cooling. The crystallized matrix, or nanostructured eutectic as it is often called, is typically comprised of brittle [***** note the prior word! ****] intermetallics, and fails with no apparent plasticity in bending or tension tests. When nanostructure-dendrite composites are loaded in an unconfined manner, as with the uniaxial tension test, cracks move unimpeded through the brittle matrix and global ductility is absent. In contrast, if the matrix is frozen as a glass, the length scale of the deformation is larger, allowing microstructural stabilization mechanisms to become possible. In the current work, we demonstrate several new titanium-based glass-dendrite composites, all of which exhibit at least 5 percent tensile ductility, low cost, and densities comparable to high-performance crystalline titanium alloys (4.97?5.15 g/cm3). We observe a remarkable similarity in mechanical properties (such as tensile ductility, yield strength, and fracture toughness) between the new glassy-composites and high-strength crystalline titanium alloys (such as Ti-6Al-4V) ? all with a significantly lower Young?s modulus. The current work demonstrates that titanium-based BMG composites can be competitive with crystalline titanium alloys for structural applications where high strength and toughness are a necessity." Page 123: "In the case where the glass matrix does not vitrify into a bulk glass, a brittle nanostructure-dendrite composite forms, accompanied by a large increase in G. Based on nearly two decades of research with BMGs, we note that a crystallized or partially crystallized metallic glass is always more brittle than a fully amorphous one." "While the glass-dendrite composites have been shown to exhibit up to ~ 13% tensile ductility [14], nanostructure-dendrite composites fail in an apparently brittle manner with no global ductility. Shear bands that form in the nanostructured eutectic matrix develop into catastrophic cracks at much shorter lengths than in BMGs, leading to failure on a continuous path through the matrix. The crystalline phases act as nucleation sites for shear bands, which typically form at lower stresses than in monolithic glasses. Despite claims of increased toughness and ductility in several publications on nanostructure-dendrite composites, tension tests are noticeably absent [1?14]. " With this background, now to more specifically answer your questions. The key to making high toughness composites with all the other required features is the creation of *soft* crystal dendrites, i.e. dendrites having a low shear modulus, lower than the glass in which they are imbedded. P 34: "The advancement that allowed in-situ alloys to exhibit tensile ductility while ex-situ alloys do not is the understanding that the inclusions need to be softer than the glass matrix [23]. This fundamental concept was experimentally demonstrated in 2001, with the alloy Zr56.2Ti13.8Nb5Cu6.9Ni5.6Be12.5 (LM2), but the concept was largely overlooked." Much of the rest of the work relates to how to form metallic glasses. The result is summed up on P. 14: "We have observed that the two most important criteria for bulk glass formation are deep eutectics and atomic size mismatch." P. 133: "The low processing temperatures of the composites allow for rapid prototyping of parts and a cost savings over crystalline titanium alloys. " Best regards, Horace Heffner http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/ _______________________________________________ NewCandle mailing list NewCandle at ipdiscover.com http://ipdiscover.com/mailman/listinfo/newcandle_ipdiscover.com _______________________________________________ NewCandle mailing list NewCandle at ipdiscover.com http://ipdiscover.com/mailman/listinfo/newcandle_ipdiscover.com From hheffner at mtaonline.net Tue Dec 30 18:24:26 2008 From: hheffner at mtaonline.net (Horace Heffner) Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 14:24:26 -0900 Subject: [NewCandle] Palladium based bulk metallic glass In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <95159442-2D7B-4802-B3ED-C67C1F9D0481@mtaonline.net> On Dec 30, 2008, at 8:28 AM, Keith Nagel wrote: > Hi Horace, > > Boy, I must have been drinking too much eggnog. I see there > is no oxygen at all in these new compositions, so they are pure > metals as you were trying to point out to me. Sorry for > the confusion. > > For what it is worth, I think one could obtain the dendritic > structure just by heat treating a glassy alloy. The > result would be a two phased alloy, with one phase being > the dendrite and the other being the bulk matrix. Interestingly > enough, one of the first glassy alloys was made with 77.5% palladium, > 6% copper, and 16.5% silicon in '69. An improved material > capable of being made in bulk was developed in the 80's, > composed of 55% palladium, 22.5% lead, and 22.5% antimony. > There's your base alloy for LENR type experiments. > > K. Interesting alloy, but does it have the extreme properties of the materials in the patent? Such an alloy might be useful to rule out excess heat from heavy LENR, as opposed to hydrogen fusion. OTOH, any alloy mostly composed of elements lighter than Fe, especially Li, Be, Mg, Al, or Ti, might be useful for demonstrating heavy LENR excess heat, even with only protium. There are numerous proton fusion reactions with isotopes all the way out to Ni that produce excess heat, and some don't require a weak force reaction. It might be useful to examine all the possible reactions. It sure would be great to obtain a strong excess heat signal or clear transmutations without having to use deuterium. I expect that might open up a huge phase of amateur experimentation. Best regards, Horace Heffner http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/ From NewCandleAdmin at ipdiscover.com Wed Dec 31 13:42:17 2008 From: NewCandleAdmin at ipdiscover.com (Keith Nagel) Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 10:42:17 -0800 Subject: [NewCandle] Palladium based bulk metallic glass In-Reply-To: <95159442-2D7B-4802-B3ED-C67C1F9D0481@mtaonline.net> Message-ID: Hey Horace, Don't know about the physical properties of these alloys; more literature research would need to be done and at the moment I'm unable to do so ( a little jawboning is in order back in NYC for that to happen again ). I think this BMG is a real strong contender for LENR research. http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=19463461 Formula Pd40 Ni40 P20 Easy to form in bulk and contains nickel as well as palladium. Has phosphorus been reported as a poison or promotor for LENR type reactions by any other researchers? Only ref to phosphorous I could find on Jed's site was this paper, http://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/ChiceaDonneweleme.pdf As regards you comment on light water LENR reactions; there's a plethora of literature out there with that claim. I agree, it would be a big plus to avoid using deuterium, but all the light water claims so far haven't triggered any massive research movements... K. -----Original Message----- From: newcandle-bounces at ipdiscover.com [mailto:newcandle-bounces at ipdiscover.com]On Behalf Of Horace Heffner Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2008 3:24 PM To: New energy for the new world. Subject: Re: [NewCandle] Palladium based bulk metallic glass On Dec 30, 2008, at 8:28 AM, Keith Nagel wrote: > Hi Horace, > > Boy, I must have been drinking too much eggnog. I see there > is no oxygen at all in these new compositions, so they are pure > metals as you were trying to point out to me. Sorry for > the confusion. > > For what it is worth, I think one could obtain the dendritic > structure just by heat treating a glassy alloy. The > result would be a two phased alloy, with one phase being > the dendrite and the other being the bulk matrix. Interestingly > enough, one of the first glassy alloys was made with 77.5% palladium, > 6% copper, and 16.5% silicon in '69. An improved material > capable of being made in bulk was developed in the 80's, > composed of 55% palladium, 22.5% lead, and 22.5% antimony. > There's your base alloy for LENR type experiments. > > K. Interesting alloy, but does it have the extreme properties of the materials in the patent? Such an alloy might be useful to rule out excess heat from heavy LENR, as opposed to hydrogen fusion. OTOH, any alloy mostly composed of elements lighter than Fe, especially Li, Be, Mg, Al, or Ti, might be useful for demonstrating heavy LENR excess heat, even with only protium. There are numerous proton fusion reactions with isotopes all the way out to Ni that produce excess heat, and some don't require a weak force reaction. It might be useful to examine all the possible reactions. It sure would be great to obtain a strong excess heat signal or clear transmutations without having to use deuterium. I expect that might open up a huge phase of amateur experimentation. Best regards, Horace Heffner http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/ _______________________________________________ NewCandle mailing list NewCandle at ipdiscover.com http://ipdiscover.com/mailman/listinfo/newcandle_ipdiscover.com