<div>Hi Keith.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>To me the bottom line is a Lighter Than Air (LTA) floater working off</div>
<div>Atmospheric and Earth Electricity.</div>
<div>Lars Wahlin's treatment of this as well as the work functions of</div>
<div>Magnesium, Zinc, Aluminum and Copper, Nickel and Steel he provides</div>
<div>gives fat for the fire on using spherical, tubular or saucer shaped</div>
<div>craft working off laminates of these materials possibly with a gossamer</div>
<div>thin dielectric layer, or a supercapacitor-battery design.</div>
<div>Since all of these need only a few atomic layers a few microfarads</div>
<div>per square meter capacitance at a volt or less will create microcoulombs </div>
<div>of outer surface charge (+/- depending on material) that can float in</div>
<div>the earth's fair weather field.</div>
<div> </div>
<div><a href="http://www.colutron.com/products/cosmos.html">http://www.colutron.com/products/cosmos.html</a></div>
<div> </div>
<div>Bon Voyage. :-)</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Fred<br><br><span class="gmail_quote">On 8/15/07, <b class="gmail_sendername">Keith Nagel</b> <<a href="mailto:NewCandleAdmin@ipdiscover.com">NewCandleAdmin@ipdiscover.com</a>> wrote:</span></div>
<div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">Hi Fred,<br><br>I am not familiar with a NASA report, but I can hazard a<br>few guesses about what it may say.
<br><br>We have a large, flat plane of great extent, charged to<br>a negative voltage. If we have a dipole above that plane,<br>there will be an attractive force on the positive pole<br>and a repulsive force on the negative. For a very short
<br>dipole, those forces would be the same. As the length<br>of the dipole increases, the forces can vary, in the<br>extreme when the dipole is aligned normal to the charged plane.<br>I agree that some kind of asymmetry is going to be needed to get this
<br>idea "off the ground".<br><br>I think my Teflon experiment relates to this because in<br>the end, an unbalanced dipole is going to (effectively )<br>look like uncompensated charge. And it disturbs me that<br>
I cannot see a repulsion. What this suggests to me is<br>that even if we did achieve the equivalent uncompensated<br>charge in your battery circuit as we can get in the Teflon,<br>we still wouldn't see any repulsive force. If we're trying
<br>to prove the idea works we have to be able to make the<br>measurement, and it's not happening for me, and I was<br>hoping we could come to some understanding why?<br><br>I did post a battery experiment as well, using Al and Cu foils
<br>in the geometry you suggested, and got null results. I haven't<br>tried your rechargeable battery experiment.<br><br>K.<br><br>-----Original Message-----<br>From: <a href="mailto:newcandle-bounces@ipdiscover.com">
newcandle-bounces@ipdiscover.com</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:newcandle-bounces@ipdiscover.com">newcandle-bounces@ipdiscover.com</a>]On Behalf Of Frederick Sparber<br>Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2007 7:01 PM<br>To: New energy for the new world.
<br>Subject: Re: [NewCandle] Another observation for Fred.<br><br><br>Hi Keith.<br><br>Manipulating the ubiquitous atmospheric-earth charge/s isn't answering my<br>question regarding wether or not the earth's putative negative charge can exert a force
<br>on the zero net charge on a bimetal couple, or a battery or<br>a supercapacitor.<br><br>The contact of metal;A with metal B of a higher work function results<br>metat A becoming positively charged Qa and metal B equally negatively charged
<br>to Qb.<br>Like isolated highly charged plate capacitors that require many kilovolts<br>to get comparable charge they are in effect electric dipoles.<br><br>I think it was a nasa report that said that isolated high-field electric dipoles
<br>can interact with the ground??<br><br>Perhaps I should connect rigid wires to the aluminum foil, and pennies to<br>form a dipole "antenna"??<br><br>Fred<br><br><br><br>On 8/14/07, Keith Nagel <<a href="mailto:NewCandleAdmin@ipdiscover.com">
NewCandleAdmin@ipdiscover.com</a>> wrote:<br>I put the scale on a 9V battery, and went into the<br>kitchen for the cold water pipe. I used a thin strip<br>of aluminum foil to get from the metal pan to the<br>tabletop, and then from there a wire to the pipe.
<br><br>Taking the Teflon slab in hand I grabbed the cat and powered<br>up. There was crackling, and the cat donated a few<br>more of his infinite supply of electrons. He's<br>really good at this, so it seems.<br><br>
With the pan grounded ( either to the table top or<br>cold water pipe, made no difference ) I measured no<br>weight difference between the Teflon charged or<br>uncharged to .1 grams. The slab is 116 grams.<br><br>With the pan free to float electrically, I would
<br>see a ~1 gram increase in weight due to charging.<br>Over time that would drop as the uncompensated charges<br>on the Teflon were slowly neutralized.<br><br>My question to Fred is, why don't I see a repulsion<br>from the grounded pan?
<br><br>K.<br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br>_______________________________________________<br>NewCandle mailing list<br><a href="mailto:NewCandle@ipdiscover.com">NewCandle@ipdiscover.com</a><br><a href="http://ipdiscover.com/mailman/listinfo/newcandle_ipdiscover.com">
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<br><a href="http://ipdiscover.com/mailman/listinfo/newcandle_ipdiscover.com">http://ipdiscover.com/mailman/listinfo/newcandle_ipdiscover.com</a><br></blockquote></div><br>